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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said: Hannah, I couldn't agree with you more! I am glad to kno...
(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said:

Hannah,

I couldn't agree with you more! I am glad to know that your scenario was just hypothetical. Yes, because there are no implied "rules" for dating anymore--thanks to the feministic movement among other factors--dating has become more difficult. However, I once read a book called "I Kissed Dating Goodbye." It was one of the best books I had ever read and gave me insight into how some individuals view dating, especially when they are looking for a Godly spouse. It was written by a man who essentially quite dating. He just focused on God and his singleness until he discovered what he really wanted--both in life and in a future spouse. He figured if you don't know those two things then how can you focus on something as pivotal as finding God's spouse for you?

I wasn't saying whether it was okay or not to ask a guy where things are going. Like you said, there really are no set rules for dating. Thus, what is okay for one person may not be okay for another (and ultimately, it has to deal with a person's level of comfortability and assertiveness). Undoubtedly, we women typically want the man to take the lead. It shows leadership--a quality which is respected, admired and of course desired in a husband. However, I'm the type of person that I will eventually just tell someone the facts--which are that communicating via email only is never going to be able to tell you if you are compatible with a person or not. F2F is always best and if that is not possible sooner rather than later then talking on the phone or video chatting is an alternative to emailing.

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You're entirely correct about the changes in the dating scenario. It IS more difficult than it was years ago.

Also, there is no "cookie-cutter" pattern to dating, committing and so on. It varies with the individuals and circumstances. It's also true that each person who is interested in a serious relationship should be mentally, spiritually, and emotionally ready to do so. The same applies to more than dating. A certain level of maturity is an obvious requirement for a successful relationship.

It's up to each individual to determine what kind of person he/she is seeking. Some want a strong, assertive person; others are fine with the more placid type. I'm wondering how two strongly assertive persons would settle their differences. It might take extra efforts to keep potentially heated discussions from leading to something worse.

The guys shouldn't continue hiding behind their computers waiting for the Good Lord to drop off the girl of their dreams right in front of them. And that's a prodding for the guys to get out there and meet the ladies with whom you've been communicating with for awhile. The only way to really get to know someone is to spend time with that person. In the beginning, everyone is on their best behavior. As time progresses and people drop their guard, you can see what they're really like. You won't learn all of that from emailing.

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Mar 4th 2013 new
Thanks Ray! :) Well said! You heard him men--get out there! ;)
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Mar 4th 2013 new
Brinsley, I can respect your cultural background, whatever it may be. However, when living within America it is going to be difficult for someone from a cultural dating background like yours to find a woman who is willing to comply with those dating "norms." There are certainly a variety of what would be considered to be dating "norms" here in America. Regardless, as Catholics, we should realize the covenant of marriage and treat it as more than just something we do because society says we are supposed to. Furthermore, I have had individuals from a similar dating cultural background as yours try and convince me that we needed to "get married right away" after knowing them for only a couple of months. Literally. However, this was not within my personal comfortability level. A lot of it had to do with the fact that I barely new the guy and the fact that I believe the path to the altar is not a race. From my personal background, I can tell you that my "norm" idea of exclusively dating awhile (say at least a year) before getting engaged is so that both parties can spend plenty of time in prayer--both together and separate--as well as growing in their relationship with God during the process of getting to know one another. Two years is maybe the average but I have heard of people who date less and those who date more before taking the next step--to engagement and then marriage. Ultimately I think it has to be a decision that each couple discusses and prays about.
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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Two years is maybe the average.....
(Quote) Two years is maybe the average.....
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I totally respect your viewpoint. However, I look at things differently. I feel the two year average actually defeats the purpose of purity
(I'm not talking just chastity) between a man and a woman as expressed in the Bible.

Imagine if your husband/wife has kissed 20 other women/men before you. If it hurts you, means something is not right!..I don't think
the holy spirit needs to work in us a two year process to make a decision. This actually gives each gender a reason to justify
sexual immorality.
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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Brinsley-777117 said: I totally respect your viewpoint. However, I look at things differently. I feel the t...
(Quote) Brinsley-777117 said:

I totally respect your viewpoint. However, I look at things differently. I feel the two year average actually defeats the purpose of purity
(I'm not talking just chastity) between a man and a woman as expressed in the Bible.

Imagine if your husband/wife has kissed 20 other women/men before you. If it hurts you, means something is not right!..I don't think
the holy spirit needs to work in us a two year process to make a decision. This actually gives each gender a reason to justify
sexual immorality.

--hide--

As far as how many women my husband has kissed, that is between him and God. There is no reason to justify sexual immorality. Individuals should not rush to the altar because they cannot control their sexual urges. One of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control; hence the Holy Spirit can help each individual to work on controlling their sexual urges. After all, if they are to practice NFP they will need to utilize self-control during a woman's fertile times. Furthermore, if the husband and wife are separated for long periods of time for some reason after they are married, such as say one is deployed because they are in the military, then they will also have to practice self-control. So, think of the courting period as practice for marriage.

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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said: Okay, so I often don't participate too much on public forums. I highly prefer the private,...
(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said:

Okay, so I often don't participate too much on public forums. I highly prefer the private, women's-only version. However, I feel that for this particular topic I want input from some testosterone counter-parts.

Why is it that men "keep their options open?" I'm not speaking from personal experience per se, but I have heard a lot of women discuss this issue and quite frankly it makes me cringe like the thought of nails on a chalkboard. Personally, I feel it is un-Christ-like to "keep your options open" when you are interested in a woman and completely against the idea of agape love (God's love) to be this way. If you meet someone whom you click well with, are on similar ground in regard to the important issues, and the chemistry is there, then what is the hold up on taking it to the next level? I'm not talking about talking to someone for only a few weeks and then begin the proper exclusive dating relationship; however, many women have discussed issues where they have spoken to guys for months on end (while going on dates with them at the same time). And yet, the guy continues to play the "I'm not ready to commit card." If guys are not ready to commit, then why in the world would they be on a dating website that is based for Catholics? (When the whole idea of Catholicism in regard to dating is that you date to determine if you are compatible for marriage. And then if you are compatible, then you marry.) Now some of these women have met these men elsewhere--in real life or on other dating websites. However, the bottom line is, if a man says he is a Christian--and truly loves God and lives for Him--then "keeping his options open" in my opinion seems a bit like using contraception in effort not to get pregnant because you do not trust God enough to let His Providence and Divine Will occur. To me, this is why there are so many single older women and men--and by older I mean in their mid to late 30's and early 40's. Women have biological clocks. Men need to know this if they don't already. So, why on Earth are they, more often than not, "keeping their options open" if they want a family one day? Don't they know that eventually a woman will not be able to give them children? I just do not get this!

So, men, feel free to enlighten us women with your ideas, opinions, etc.

--hide--

I cant and wont speak for other men on this siteor indeed any other similar sites but I will give you what I have learned in my battlescared years.

Its not so much a matter of keeping options open but more a case of saying hello to as many as possible, casting the net wide. Since the world of feminine PC took the world in my teens men have felt a degree of powerlessness over relationships. What with sexual harrassment, stalking, and all the other potential pitfalls, guys play safe and wait for the lady to make the move. Often they will contact and wait for you to reply, if you dont they may try once more otherwise they will stop and try an other because they dont wont to be a pester or stalker or whatever.

So its a case of survival and gender differences. While you await bliss, we await reply and signals that you are interested. Bad communication, not rudeness or lack of interest, just lack of encouragement.

But if contact is made and dates attended and things are moving along well. And then the guy jumps horses, so to speak, then thats just plain rude and they are, well I cant write that so I just be polite and say, prats, rude ignorant scum-of-the-earth and you are better off without them.

While men seem strong and robust, in my experience, both personally and clinically, men are actual quite emotionally fragile and take rejection persnally and retreat into themselves. Men dont do outward signs of real emotions except with those they trust and are safe with, so they put up a front act impervious to the slings and arrows and move on. But its an act, a wall to protect our vulnerable inner Id, and men hurt. So the playing the field is a form of defense, if there is no contact and things are just at the email, skype, chat coffee stage we will move on as soon as partly to show we are unaffected and partly because we want to feel still attractive and needed.

Women are not the only ones who feel as you have expressed in your post. Men feel the same way but show it differently, and usually only to the choosen few mates and family they really trust and feel safe with. Those would be the mates you wont stand once you are married to us. They are usualy the closest of our friends, the best man, and the groomsmen. Im sure you know the ones.

To you they are the devils spawn to us they are the trust knights of our round table.

Well thats my drivell over, just from my own personal experiences and seeing the results in clinical psychiatry. But good luck the species needs us both (science forgotten about) eyepopping shhh laughing theheart rosary hug Praying

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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: I cant and wont speak for other men on this siteor indeed any other similar sites but ...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

I cant and wont speak for other men on this siteor indeed any other similar sites but I will give you what I have learned in my battlescared years.

Its not so much a matter of keeping options open but more a case of saying hello to as many as possible, casting the net wide. Since the world of feminine PC took the world in my teens men have felt a degree of powerlessness over relationships. What with sexual harrassment, stalking, and all the other potential pitfalls, guys play safe and wait for the lady to make the move. Often they will contact and wait for you to reply, if you dont they may try once more otherwise they will stop and try an other because they dont wont to be a pester or stalker or whatever.

So its a case of survival and gender differences. While you await bliss, we await reply and signals that you are interested. Bad communication, not rudeness or lack of interest, just lack of encouragement.

But if contact is made and dates attended and things are moving along well. And then the guy jumps horses, so to speak, then thats just plain rude and they are, well I cant write that so I just be polite and say, prats, rude ignorant scum-of-the-earth and you are better off without them.

While men seem strong and robust, in my experience, both personally and clinically, men are actual quite emotionally fragile and take rejection persnally and retreat into themselves. Men dont do outward signs of real emotions except with those they trust and are safe with, so they put up a front act impervious to the slings and arrows and move on. But its an act, a wall to protect our vulnerable inner Id, and men hurt. So the playing the field is a form of defense, if there is no contact and things are just at the email, skype, chat coffee stage we will move on as soon as partly to show we are unaffected and partly because we want to feel still attractive and needed.

Women are not the only ones who feel as you have expressed in your post. Men feel the same way but show it differently, and usually only to the choosen few mates and family they really trust and feel safe with. Those would be the mates you wont stand once you are married to us. They are usualy the closest of our friends, the best man, and the groomsmen. Im sure you know the ones.

To you they are the devils spawn to us they are the trust knights of our round table.

Well thats my drivell over, just from my own personal experiences and seeing the results in clinical psychiatry. But good luck the species needs us both (science forgotten about)

--hide--

Thank you Patrick! Your opinion and personal experiences expressed are greatly valued! :) I would agree with you that as women we should realize that men are human, just like us. Although society says they are to be the "tougher" ones sometimes they have the same issues women have--they just deal with them differently. I believe that if we want to encourage men to be stronger men--Godly leaders--we have to be better, Godlier women.

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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said: Thank you Patrick! Your opinion and personal experiences expressed are great...
(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said:

Thank you Patrick! Your opinion and personal experiences expressed are greatly valued! :) I would agree with you that as women we should realize that men are human, just like us. Although society says they are to be the "tougher" ones sometimes they have the same issues women have--they just deal with them differently. I believe that if we want to encourage men to be stronger men--Godly leaders--we have to be better, Godlier women.

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Tiffany I believe all women are Godly and chaste, I think they need to be more realistic about getting men to trust, and not to be so defensive. I believe we are all, as Gods Children, Spiritual and Godly- perhaps not as Godly as we could or should but all Mankind tries.

I find its the basics in a relationship that are the hardest, as the french say The first step is always the hardest.

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Mar 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said: (Quote) Hannah-708610 said: So... does this mean that, after ...
(Quote) Tiffiany-902101 said:
Quote:
Hannah-708610 said:

So... does this mean that, after three or so months of talking to a guy, if he hasn't suggested that you talk on the phone or meet or date or move the relationship forward in any way, the girl should say something? Something about that seems a little backward, probably because the guy should be the one to make that move.

But, on the other hand, if he's not going to make that move, then I guess it makes sense that the girl should make it. Is that what you're saying, Brian?


Hannah, I'm not quite sure what he meant. However if a guy was talking only online to me for three months I would finally just mention that anything substantial is not going to come from merely an email. Meeting face-to-face, talking on the phone, or Skyping would all be good options. I've confronted guys like this before and had varied responses; although I never let it get to 3 months. That essentially seems WAY too long be communicating only via e-mail (unless of course the circumstances only permit him to communicate this way--eg he is stationed in Afghanistan).
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To answer both questions, the answer is yes. Communication is a two way street. If either party is unable to clearly communicate what they are feeling and where they want to go in a relationship, why would anyone wait three months to figure it out? After reading these forums for years, and listeing to what people (both men and women) want and don't want, what their respective deal breakers are, and how they try to hold on to some last bastion of hope of bygone era role responsibilities...it really is amazing how poorly people actually communicate. And I'd take it one step further. Skyping and phone conversations are only options when physical distance is a barrier. Afghanistan is an extreme example. That WOULD be unreasonable to expect someone to commit to something, when they have other things, such as ducking for cover on their minds. But within a few hours drive? Absolutely.

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Mar 4th 2013 new

It's been fun reading all the responses haha. Dating, in any sense of the word, can be so difficult! If only for the fact that we are all so broken and in different stages of healing. We have all built so many walls, and we respond to the world in different ways because of them. So it's always hard to answer those "why" questions.

This is such an interesting topic, thanks for getting it started.

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