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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Strategy: Find a some pictures and lie about what's in them. Make a bunch of general ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Strategy: Find a some pictures and lie about what's in them. Make a bunch of general statements and vague innuendo. Once you have the attention of the people who are naturally distrustfull or hate some person or organization, use that distrust and hatred to fan the flames of fear. Make lots and lots of accusations that are backed by true but meaningless facts. If the facts aren't covenient, exaggerate or even lie. Say that any holes in your argument are because "they" have silenced the truth. Whatever you do, don't ever get too specific- at that point you run the risk of somebody actually proving you wrong. Just keep in vague and general...

--hide--

John, the problem with this argument is that the administration's comments and actions have been consistent since Obama's first run for Presidency. If you are really interested in the direction they are taking us, read the teachings of Stalin. If you can take away all our constitutional rights, and disarm us, you can take over the population with the lightest tanks. Some people may be exagerating, but there are enough facts out there to scare anyone who values their freedoms.

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Lisa-910908 said: John, the problem with this argument is that the administration's comments and action...
(Quote) Lisa-910908 said:

John, the problem with this argument is that the administration's comments and actions have been consistent since Obama's first run for Presidency. If you are really interested in the direction they are taking us, read the teachings of Stalin. If you can take away all our constitutional rights, and disarm us, you can take over the population with the lightest tanks. Some people may be exagerating, but there are enough facts out there to scare anyone who values their freedoms.

--hide--

eyebrow

In the post you are responding to I'm not really making an argument so much as demonstrating the foolishness of the "argument" that had been presented.

If you can take away all of our constitutional rights, the population has already been taken over regardless of what kind of hardware the government has. The the DHS still does not have tanks, even light ones, no matter how much people want to claim otherwise.

I agree that thre are any number of things that the administration has done and is in the process of doing that are not good. If people really want to counter act that, they need to address the actual situation, not some trumped-up, ridiculous, the-sky-is-falling conspiracy theory.

The story of the assault on our rights is not to be found is some dark alley or secret underground conference room, or wherever else the tin foil hat types think "They" are pulling the strings. It's on the front page of the newspapers. It's the demagogues pushing through gun control laws that have no chance of stopping gun violence but which will deprive law abiding citizens of their ability to defend themselves. It's the politically correct folks who are slowly be surely making it a "hate crime" to have an opinion that conflicts with theirs as they redefine marriage and erect legal barriers to people of faith being able to participate in every day life.

Obama is not going to become a dictator, so people need to stop sounding like shrill, idiotic, lunatics screaming about nothing. Obama's political ideology on the other hand, is going to pave the way for some person or group down the line to eventually pull that off. But as long as Obama's opponents are busy shooting themselves in the foot whining about his birth certificate, or making up stories about "tanks" that aren't even remotely tanks, he and his friends are going to have an easy time. Instead of having to justify their encroachments on our rights, Obama & Co. can just shrug their shoulders and paint their opponents as rabid haters. I wouldn't care that much of the conspiracy theory nuts were simply shooting themselves in the foot, but the problem is the rest of us are getting sprayed by the shrapnel.

The reality is that the majority of the press likes Obama's politics. Consequently every time some kook starts saying something stupid, the media is going to use that to smear all of the folks opposing Obama. We really need to stop giving them ammunition.

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Amen Beth!
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Amen Beth!

--hide--

Here is another reason to want Obama's days in office to be fewer than he was elected to stay, and I'll say again to certain people "I told you so!"

The Syrian rebels, many of whom are terrorists and have persecuted Christians, are being trained by Americans, either by our government or by private "defense" firms at our hire (such as Dyncorp, who I worked for).

ca.news.yahoo.com

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Here is another reason to want Obama's days in office to be fewer than he was elect...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Here is another reason to want Obama's days in office to be fewer than he was elected to stay, and I'll say again to certain people "I told you so!"

The Syrian rebels, many of whom are terrorists and have persecuted Christians, are being trained by Americans, either by our government or by private "defense" firms at our hire (such as Dyncorp, who I worked for).

ca.news.yahoo.com

--hide--

So in your world view it would be better if the Syrian rebels, many of whom are not terrorists defeated the Syrian government (which you neglect to mention actively aids and supports terrorists) without any aid from us becuase you think that is going to make them more pro-west?

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Assuming that we're all on board with not wanting the criminals to run the streets, w...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Assuming that we're all on board with not wanting the criminals to run the streets, we have two basic choices; completely disarm the population, or accept the fact that the police is going to need the capability to successfully engage well armed, violent criminals.

--hide--

I do not agree with disarming the population, and I hope you do not either.

OTOH, I disagree with the proposition that they don't already have sufficient capacity to engage well armed, violent criminals without the use of an armored vehicle designed with urban warfare in mind. Are you suggesting that the United States, with perhaps the exception of downtown Chicago and, perhaps, Detroit, is a war-zone on the level of Iraq or Afghanistan?

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: So in your world view it would be better if the Syrian rebels, many of whom are n...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

So in your world view it would be better if the Syrian rebels, many of whom are not terrorists defeated the Syrian government (which you neglect to mention actively aids and supports terrorists) without any aid from us becuase you think that is going to make them more pro-west?

--hide--

I do not think they are going to be more pro-west, do you? The present government in Syria, while certainly not the best, is a secular state that protected the Christian minority in that country.

The forces that will "democratize" Syria are largely Sunni Islamists who are not, in any way, pro-Western. They will not tolerate the Orthodox or the Melkites there, any more than the Libyan government tolerates the black Saharan minority in their country.

www.independent.co.uk

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: I do not agree with disarming the population, and I hope you do not either. OTOH...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

I do not agree with disarming the population, and I hope you do not either.

OTOH, I disagree with the proposition that they don't already have sufficient capacity to engage well armed, violent criminals without the use of an armored vehicle designed with urban warfare in mind. Are you suggesting that the United States, with perhaps the exception of downtown Chicago and, perhaps, Detroit, is a war-zone on the level of Iraq or Afghanistan?

--hide--

Are you suggesting that Chris Dorner did not really kill multiple police officers? They obviously needed more armor than what they had, so I fail to see the problem with giving it to the folks that were tasked with engaging him.

It's really easy sit back hundreds or thousands of miles away from the scene and pontificate about how other people don't need armor while they assault a heavily armed individual whose only remaining goal in life is to kill as many of them as possible before going out in a blaze of glory. Until you personally are the one getting shot at, I would suggest that your moral authority to deny protection to the people who are is pretty limited.

Since I do not agree with disarming the population and I do not want the local criminals to run the street, it only seems fair to me to give law enforcement the tools they need to engage the criminals successfully.

it would be an idiotic waste of money to design an armored vehicles for the police that do exactly what military vehicles are already capable of when the military can transfer their excess to the cops.

Mar 16th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: I do not think they are going to be more pro-west, do you? Th...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

I do not think they are going to be more pro-west, do you? The present government in Syria, while certainly not the best, is a secular state that protected the Christian minority in that country.

The forces that will "democratize" Syria are largely Sunni Islamists who are not, in any way, pro-Western. They will not tolerate the Orthodox or the Melkites there, any more than the Libyan government tolerates the black Saharan minority in their country.

www.independent.co.uk

--hide--

The present government in Syria is an authoritarian dictatorship which actively supports terrorism and the perpetual conflict with Israel. It needs to go. I'd rather be on good terms with the folks that get rid of Assad than arbitrarily go out of my way to be their enemy.

Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: In the post you are responding to I'm not really making an argument so much ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

In the post you are responding to I'm not really making an argument so much as demonstrating the foolishness of the "argument" that had been presented.

If you can take away all of our constitutional rights, the population has already been taken over regardless of what kind of hardware the government has. The the DHS still does not have tanks, even light ones, no matter how much people want to claim otherwise.

I agree that thre are any number of things that the administration has done and is in the process of doing that are not good. If people really want to counter act that, they need to address the actual situation, not some trumped-up, ridiculous, the-sky-is-falling conspiracy theory.

The story of the assault on our rights is not to be found is some dark alley or secret underground conference room, or wherever else the tin foil hat types think "They" are pulling the strings. It's on the front page of the newspapers. It's the demagogues pushing through gun control laws that have no chance of stopping gun violence but which will deprive law abiding citizens of their ability to defend themselves. It's the politically correct folks who are slowly be surely making it a "hate crime" to have an opinion that conflicts with theirs as they redefine marriage and erect legal barriers to people of faith being able to participate in every day life.

Obama is not going to become a dictator, so people need to stop sounding like shrill, idiotic, lunatics screaming about nothing. Obama's political ideology on the other hand, is going to pave the way for some person or group down the line to eventually pull that off. But as long as Obama's opponents are busy shooting themselves in the foot whining about his birth certificate, or making up stories about "tanks" that aren't even remotely tanks, he and his friends are going to have an easy time. Instead of having to justify their encroachments on our rights, Obama & Co. can just shrug their shoulders and paint their opponents as rabid haters. I wouldn't care that much of the conspiracy theory nuts were simply shooting themselves in the foot, but the problem is the rest of us are getting sprayed by the shrapnel.

The reality is that the majority of the press likes Obama's politics. Consequently every time some kook starts saying something stupid, the media is going to use that to smear all of the folks opposing Obama. We really need to stop giving them ammunition.

--hide--

Way to go, John. That is saying it like it really is.

Mar 22nd 2013 new

As an Oath Keeper myself "Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey"

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.
2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects – such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.
3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.
4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.
5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.
6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.
7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.
8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.
9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.
10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of current and formerly serving military, reserves, National Guard, veterans, Peace Officers, and Fire Fighters who will fulfill the Oath we swore, with the support of like minded citizens who take an Oath to stand with us, to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God. Our Oath is to the Constitution

Our motto is "Not on our watch!"
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