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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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03/16/2013 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: I am in Illinois, and we are one house of representatives vote away from gay marriage. I went ...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

I am in Illinois, and we are one house of representatives vote away from gay marriage.

I went through the adoption of civil unions two years ago, and thought then, I need to move, but then thought that would be it, that an equivalent structure would be enough to satisfy the liberal left, but it wasn't.

I am really despairing here that I can't live anymore in a state where such things are accepted (and paid for with my tax money), and I have to be part of a court system that works on these issues as well.

There is also the issue of the two cases before the Supreme Court; if those cases go the "wrong" way, perhaps there will be no "safe" place in America on the issue.

I am seriously considering moving, but I really don't know where might be "safe" from this issue.

I have wanted to move to AZ but now I see that is not even a good bet.

I am thinking that a state where there has been a long standing constitutional amendment defining marriage as one man one woman....I know which those are, but are you even safe there?

What does everyone think? Is there anywhere one can go where you can be safe from this issue?

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"Woe to the world because of things that cause sin. Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come!" NAB Matthew 18:7. We stand with Christ when we voice our objections to those things that are an abomination - sin. Not to be flip about your question, but to live in a state of Grace is our only option, I believe.

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03/16/2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: There is certainly some wisdom in what you are saying, and ultimately a government which ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

There is certainly some wisdom in what you are saying, and ultimately a government which needs to protect everyone regardless of their faith needs to let peole metaphorically buy and sell what they want at the "grocery store." The problem is that governments are starting to tell the stores they have to sell the pork whether they want to or not, and they are telling the consumers they have to buy it whether they want it or not.

The other problem, more specifically towards marriage than other religious issues, is that the destruction of the family is singlehandedly responsible for a tremendous amount of the problems we are having in society.

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I do agree that there are battles here, but I do wish to emphasize that as long as someone lives in a jurisdiction where freedom of religion is a constitutionally protected right, the situation is not as dire as you may think. It may take a few court battles where people have to be organized and prepared to stand up and say that the constitutional religious right outweighs the competing right in a given circumstance. In a democracy with protected religious rights that is possible.

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Angela-374523 said: Hi Paul,Just to clarify, freedom of religion is protected by the Canadian Ch...
(Quote) Angela-374523 said:




Hi Paul,

Just to clarify, freedom of religion is protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and a priest is free to speak against sin in the pulpit. There are many Canadian Catholics who do not support same sex marriage. For that matter, many religious Canadians of other faiths do not support it either.

There are liberal elements in the media and in various political and social movements that try to wave the "progressive" flag in Canada, but not any more so that American organizations like "N.O.W." for example. It has been interesting to note the extent to which the US Democratic Party has moved the goalposts on such issues as gay marriage in an attempt to appease these "progressive" elements. The same has happened in Canada. It has nothing to do with comparative inferiority or superiority in GDP, quality of life or military might on the global stage.

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You do not have freedom of speech in Canada. A layperson saying homosexuality is sinful and disordered could be prosecuted. It probably wouldn't happen - but it could. Canada is an overwhelming secular nation that doesn't value of marriage. For the minority of those of you that do, I suggest migrating south.

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Lisa-910908 said: The Defense of Marriage Act was enacted to protect states with traditional definitions of marriage...
(Quote) Lisa-910908 said:

The Defense of Marriage Act was enacted to protect states with traditional definitions of marriage. However, Obama said he no longer supports DOM. Texas' constitution defines marriage as only between one man and one woman. However, I don't know what happens to our state constition if there is a supreme court decision in the opposite direction.

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That part of the Texas Constitution would be rendered ineffective. It would not invalidate the entire Constitution.

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: You do not have freedom of speech in Canada. A layperson saying homosexuality i...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:





You do not have freedom of speech in Canada. A layperson saying homosexuality is sinful and disordered could be prosecuted. It probably wouldn't happen - but it could. Canada is an overwhelming secular nation that doesn't value of marriage. For the minority of those of you that do, I suggest migrating south.

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But it has happened. Although I understand Angela's take on their laws which she feels protects the preacher in His pulpit, Preachers have been taken to the panel under their laws that oversees "crimes" of this nature. It is sort of a Court and can assess fines. But as I understand it, and I could be wrong, it has no power to enforce its decisions except through public opinion.

Nevertheless, anyone in Canada charged with these defined crimes and brought before this "court", is still required to spend their time, money and effort defending themselves.

I also believe that the person has the right to appeal the case into the regular court system of Canada.

Whatever the case, its existence is a form of intimidation against anyone who dares to cross the line and indulge in any of the defined "hate" speech.

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: I am confident that you would be safe in South Carolina, where I know live...even though...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



I am confident that you would be safe in South Carolina, where I know live...even though the Protestants here, mostly Baptists, don't recognize the Pope as the leader of the church, there is no way they could agree that homosexuals should get married. Their faith is based on the Bible and the government here does represent the majority of people living here.

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What about democrats and those not of US or WASP heritage biggrin

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: The problem is not the voters. In almost every case, the state of Washington being an exc...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

The problem is not the voters. In almost every case, the state of Washington being an exception, when put to the vote of the people the issue has been turned down by those voters, usually by comfortable margins.

The problem lies with the legislatures and the Courts.

California voters turned this nonsense down by a hefty negative vote. Both the State Courts and the Federal Courts ruled the action of the solid majority of California voters to be unconstitutional. Hence the case is now before the US Supreme court, combined with another case for a full hearing with a decision expected prior to the Court recessing for the summer.

Although the majority of the justices on the court profess to be Roman Catholic, I don't have very high expectations about the outcome. Justice Roberts will probably again pull an Obummer Care like reasoning to uphold this sick idea.

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Why dont you push for a National Referendum binding in all States and National Government? Majority rules, you sound like you will have the majority, and then have a Constitutional admentment, or does that violate Church and State?

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Jim-624621 said: Where America has gone wrong in the debate over unpopular laws is in the misconception that the Su...
(Quote) Jim-624621 said:

Where America has gone wrong in the debate over unpopular laws is in the misconception that the Supreme Court is the highest law in the land, and that whatever they say goes. That just isn't true. The states are sovereign. It's just that the States have put themselves in a position where they are reliant on federal money, and extortion overpowers their ability to stand on the position of the people. In essence, the people have been disenfranchised by the politicians. Why should the will of the people in the form of a popular election EVER be overruled in any fashion by nine men hand picked by politicians? It never should. It doesn't pass the common sense test.
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I thought your Supreme Court rules on whether any law is Constitutional and what it says regarding the Constitution is the last word?

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Lisa-910908 said: The Defense of Marriage Act was enacted to protect states with traditional definitions of marriage...
(Quote) Lisa-910908 said:

The Defense of Marriage Act was enacted to protect states with traditional definitions of marriage. However, Obama said he no longer supports DOM. Texas' constitution defines marriage as only between one man and one woman. However, I don't know what happens to our state constition if there is a supreme court decision in the opposite direction.

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Surely the Supreme Court would have to rule regarding both the US and Texas Constitutions as its remit dictates.But first wouldnt such a law have to travel the path through the Appeals Court, the State Supreme Court before being able to be touched by the Supreme Court.

As to which would be superior is an interesting question. The Civil War was started over States Rights verus Soveriegn Fedreal rights. The States Rights lost, so does that mean State Charters/Constitutions are subordinate to the Declaration of Independance and the Constitution? Especially when you read the terms of Magna Carta, which guarantees equality and justice to ruled and ruler?

Also as many of the first 13 colonies were founded by Royal Charter, as individual separate Colonies, wont they have a degree of Soveriegn authority, as would Texas as it to was an independant soveriegn State prior to annexation in 1835? Is that also why each State maintains its own National Guard? The National Guard, and imdeed the State Police, act under the authority of the State Legislature and not Congress.

My understanding of Federation is that it is a mutual agreements between States to unite for matters effecting all States, or requiring a single Nation identity, such as Trade Treaties and the like.

Your situation is similar to Australia which became a single nation in 1900, New Zealand is included but decided not to join, but a clause in the Australian Constitution allows for the Commonwealth to bring New Zealand into the Commonwealth of Australia. Canada has a similar situation regarding the Provinces under the 1860 Dominion Act regarding Sovereignty and Nationhood?

Just stirring the pot a bit to see what you think.

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03/17/2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: What is your criteria for labeling a "true" mental illness?
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

What is your criteria for labeling a "true" mental illness?

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DSM5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual Edition 5) homosexuality IS NOT a mental disease, as any scientific and medical person would know. See also McNaughtons rules 1645

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