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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: When I was in medical school (1995-1999) at Northwestern University Medical S...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

When I was in medical school (1995-1999) at Northwestern University Medical School, we were taught that in DSM-3 (I believe), homosexuality was a psychiatric illness. They also discussed the possibility of it being partially a genetic illness (which as far as I know has not been confirmed). They also discussed the influence of environmental/behavioral influences (ie., upbringing, family, school, culture, society) and felt that this contributed substantially to the "condition" of homosexuality.

I believe that it is both a psychological and spiritual illness, although I have seen many cases where I wouldn't even call it an illness as it appears to be a CHOICE.I don't think that it is genetic, other than in the rare genetic illnesses I was taught about in medical school in which a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia and a choice has to be made as to which sex/gender the baby will be or where a baby is born with both male and female genitalia and again a choice has to be made and appropriate surgeries performed. These are very rare conditions!

There is a large gay community in Chicago on the north side about 3 blocks from where my condo is. It is "cool" to be gay. There is a not very subtle pressure to be gay, to act gay, to talk gay, to dress gay. If you are non-gay and walking down the streets in their neighborhood, you will be ignored or basically be invisible to them. This gay population is 95% male I believe as I rarely see lesbians and have never experienced the things I am talking about here in relation to the lesbians. In fact, honestly, I can't for the life of me pick out a lesbian on the street or in a restaurant, but I can certainly pick out a gay man by his style of dress, how he talks, what he talks about, his gestures, etc. And, I have met men who have clearly made this choice as they were previously married, have children, or are/were bisexual and have CHOSEN to be gay. It's the old nature (genetics/illness) vs. nurture (environment, family, society) argument. I honestly don't think 99% of gay men were born gay - I think they either became gay due to other issues/problems/influences in their life and upbringing or they CHOSE to become gay.

I know what I am saying is politically incorrect, but that doesn't matter because it is the truth as far as I can ascertain at this point in time. And, I still do get and read medical journals and go to CME's (continuing medical education) lectures/seminars (although they won't touch this subject with a 10 foot pole at this time in our culture/society). I intend no disrespect to any gay person and, in fact, have gay aquaintances (who I'm hoping are living a chaste life.) But, this is the best knowlege I have as a physician who is retired, but still attempting to stay up-to-date in terms of new developments in medical knowlege.

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I wouldn't expect the Church to make its way into the medical aspects of the subject (and it doesn't, when the Catechism states that "(Homosexuality's) psychological genesis remains largely unexplained"), but the Church leaves no room for doubt with the line that the behavior is intrinsically disordered.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-624504 said: Correct. They are governed by the legal maxium that one has to be mindful of the effec...
(Quote) Patrick-624504 said:

Correct. They are governed by the legal maxium that one has to be mindful of the effects of your speach (Shorthanded, as the legalese will bore you, it did me) so any speach which may leed to social discord or public disorder is usually governed. That said you can say anything about anyone if it is true. Truth is an absolute defense. Hense our political satire and our tabloids are much freer with their expressions about people, events, and situations. Swings and round abouts. The courts and the Prosecutor would also take into account Public Interest. That is is it in the Public Interest to take this case on? If not they wont due to cost.

Another person banned for hate speech, at least in NZ, was the Holocaust Denier David Irving who was made persona non gratia and refused a visa to enter

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My goal isn't to bash the Commonwealth. I understand the US Constitution is unique and different countries are going to having different laws and constitutions. So, in the Commonwealth someone says something, is accused of being a liar, and then there are charges? We do have libel laws in the US, but those really only apply to blatant character assisination, are very hard to prove and are rarely prosecuted. It sounds like the burden is much lower in the Commonwealth.


I am more referring to "hate speech"- like the Ann Coulter link and I'll use the example you chose. Denying the Holocaust is insane, yet, I think someone should have to right to say that if they actually believe that. That shouldn't be against the law and subject to deportation. That sets a very bad precedent.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: My goal isn't to bash the Commonwealth. I understand the US Constitution is unique ...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:



My goal isn't to bash the Commonwealth. I understand the US Constitution is unique and different countries are going to having different laws and constitutions. So, in the Commonwealth someone says something, is accused of being a liar, and then there are charges? We do have libel laws in the US, but those really only apply to blatant character assisination, are very hard to prove and are rarely prosecuted. It sounds like the burden is much lower in the Commonwealth.


I am more referring to "hate speech"- like the Ann Coulter link and I'll use the example you chose. Denying the Holocaust is insane, yet, I think someone should have to right to say that if they actually believe that. That shouldn't be against the law and subject to deportation. That sets a very bad precedent.

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Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-themed "rights" activists are now launching the next step, which will be to blacklist those that speak for traditional marriage. Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, famous for "Ender's Game," has had his Superman project shelved after the DC artist assigned on the project quit on him for being a member of the National Organization for Marriage.

The reportage supports a full blacklisting of him, even to the point of removing him for the credits of the film version of "Ender's Game."

www.lifesitenews.com

It's just the beginning, folks.

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Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-t...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-themed "rights" activists are now launching the next step, which will be to blacklist those that speak for traditional marriage. Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, famous for "Ender's Game," has had his Superman project shelved after the DC artist assigned on the project quit on him for being a member of the National Organization for Marriage.

The reportage supports a full blacklisting of him, even to the point of removing him for the credits of the film version of "Ender's Game."

www.lifesitenews.com

It's just the beginning, folks.

--hide--
This is so incredibly sad...their attacks on Christians and their values. It reminds me of what is happening to Chik-fil-le. People have tried to blacklist them from cities and colleges simply because of their traditional marriage values. If you work in movies, t.v., etc. it has got to be hard to be a Christian with traditional values.

LOCKED
Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-t...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-themed "rights" activists are now launching the next step, which will be to blacklist those that speak for traditional marriage. Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, famous for "Ender's Game," has had his Superman project shelved after the DC artist assigned on the project quit on him for being a member of the National Organization for Marriage.

The reportage supports a full blacklisting of him, even to the point of removing him for the credits of the film version of "Ender's Game."

www.lifesitenews.com

It's just the beginning, folks.

--hide--
Well, he is an author, so he can always get a pen name, right?

LOCKED
Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: This is so incredibly sad...their attacks on Christians and their values. It reminds me of what ...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

This is so incredibly sad...their attacks on Christians and their values. It reminds me of what is happening to Chik-fil-le. People have tried to blacklist them from cities and colleges simply because of their traditional marriage values. If you work in movies, t.v., etc. it has got to be hard to be a Christian with traditional values.

--hide--

If being an Orthodox Christian, especially in regard to traditional sexual roles, is equated as "hateful", as seems to be the trend, I can see a time coming where you might not be able to work except within a "ghetto" unless you acceed to the culture.

LOCKED
Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-t...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Unfortunately, the horse has long since gotten out of the barn, and the San-Francisco-themed "rights" activists are now launching the next step, which will be to blacklist those that speak for traditional marriage. Science fiction writer Orson Scott Card, famous for "Ender's Game," has had his Superman project shelved after the DC artist assigned on the project quit on him for being a member of the National Organization for Marriage.

The reportage supports a full blacklisting of him, even to the point of removing him for the credits of the film version of "Ender's Game."

www.lifesitenews.com

It's just the beginning, folks.

--hide--



The "tolerance" police are the biggest haters of them all. The gay rights movement is another of Wall Street and Corporate America's creatures from hell.

LOCKED
Mar 17th 2013 new

(Quote) Angela-374523 said: Patrick, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the reality of th...
(Quote) Angela-374523 said:




Patrick, you are entitled to your opinion. That doesn't change the reality of the country that I live and work in. There are practicising Jews, Muslims, Catholics and Christians of other denominations who attend religious services in houses of worship, including Churches. The Canadian Constitution protects those rights.

If moving south means moving to those parts of California where the pornography industry has been flourishing for decades now, then no thanks.

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You are correct that here in the US, we certainly have many problems. In fact, I am sure we have far more problems than in Canada. Yet, it is somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison, as Canada is mostly a monolithic society with very low population density. Few people live north of 100 miles of the US border.

Yet, atleast for now, we don't have universal gay marriage or healthcare. Obamacare is coming but it is not nearly as bad as Canada's single-payer system. Also, we have the greastest constitution in the world - that is for sure!!!!

LOCKED
Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: For those who would suggest that there is no evidence suggesting that homosexuality is a mental...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

For those who would suggest that there is no evidence suggesting that homosexuality is a mental illness, here is some background on the pressure that was put on American Psychiatry Association members going back to 1970, before the decision was made in 1973 to remove this disorder from their list of mental illnesses:

conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com



Thankfully, we can refer to Holy Mother Church for the final word on the subject, who teaches us that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.


From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexualityrefers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction
toward persons of the same sex.
It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures.
Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are
contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective
and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they beapproved.

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Quoting the fundamental ignorant bigots doesnt make it a disease or mental illness. The Catechism you quote doesnt call homosexuality a disease or mental illness, nor does it imply it. It says it is a depravity and the ACT can not be tolerated, not the person. I know from pat post you would to have them locked away and condemned as diseased, but even Christ embraced the Lepers, the sinners and those with true mental disorders/illness.

YOU might be well pleased to follow Christ's example. Even Pope Francis mixed with homosexuals, hIV and AIDS and those shunned and marginalised and scorned by society like the truly the mentally ill. He tells us to be charitable and to be examples of Christ Love, not examples of bigotry and hate. Nobody is telling you to accept it as normal or approve of the actions activity, just show love tollerance and understanding, not bigotry and hate.

No matter how long or how loud you demand it to be so, it wont be. If homosexuality is a disease and not an instinct then so is heterosexuality based on your same argument. Personally I am not mentaly diseased and would say the same applies to 99.99% of all members here. Thats is they are heterosexual and quite normal and well

LOCKED
Mar 18th 2013 new

(Quote) Patricia-29176 said: When I was in medical school (1995-1999) at Northwestern University Medical S...
(Quote) Patricia-29176 said:

When I was in medical school (1995-1999) at Northwestern University Medical School, we were taught that in DSM-3 (I believe), homosexuality was a psychiatric illness. They also discussed the possibility of it being partially a genetic illness (which as far as I know has not been confirmed). They also discussed the influence of environmental/behavioral influences (ie., upbringing, family, school, culture, society) and felt that this contributed substantially to the "condition" of homosexuality.

I believe that it is both a psychological and spiritual illness, although I have seen many cases where I wouldn't even call it an illness as it appears to be a CHOICE.I don't think that it is genetic, other than in the rare genetic illnesses I was taught about in medical school in which a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia and a choice has to be made as to which sex/gender the baby will be or where a baby is born with both male and female genitalia and again a choice has to be made and appropriate surgeries performed. These are very rare conditions!

There is a large gay community in Chicago on the north side about 3 blocks from where my condo is. It is "cool" to be gay. There is a not very subtle pressure to be gay, to act gay, to talk gay, to dress gay. If you are non-gay and walking down the streets in their neighborhood, you will be ignored or basically be invisible to them. This gay population is 95% male I believe as I rarely see lesbians and have never experienced the things I am talking about here in relation to the lesbians. In fact, honestly, I can't for the life of me pick out a lesbian on the street or in a restaurant, but I can certainly pick out a gay man by his style of dress, how he talks, what he talks about, his gestures, etc. And, I have met men who have clearly made this choice as they were previously married, have children, or are/were bisexual and have CHOSEN to be gay. It's the old nature (genetics/illness) vs. nurture (environment, family, society) argument. I honestly don't think 99% of gay men were born gay - I think they either became gay due to other issues/problems/influences in their life and upbringing or they CHOSE to become gay.

I know what I am saying is politically incorrect, but that doesn't matter because it is the truth as far as I can ascertain at this point in time. And, I still do get and read medical journals and go to CME's (continuing medical education) lectures/seminars (although they won't touch this subject with a 10 foot pole at this time in our culture/society). I intend no disrespect to any gay person and, in fact, have gay aquaintances (who I'm hoping are living a chaste life.) But, this is the best knowlege I have as a physician who is retired, but still attempting to stay up-to-date in terms of new developments in medical knowlege.

--hide--

I was taught the genetic/temperature development in the womb theory, and we were taught about the hemaphrodite condition and the psychological disruption that comes, also the psychological problems that being homosexual can cause, but never were we taught that BEING homosexual made YOU MENTALLY ILL. We were told to be polite and treat them as per normal if they were patents in the hospital, it was a different matter with the hemaphrodite with both genetals and presumably both thought patterns and desires.

I feel the main problem that leeds to ready acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle IS because it has become COOL in that NO-ONE uses the term homosexual, but uses gay. A deliberate choice by Homosexual Activists in the US in 1980. At the time it was explained that gay is much less stigmatic word, more media acceptable and easier to use and write. What it has done is allow the acceptance of the homosexual as a normal person, with a natural desire and thus should be allowed all rights hetrosexuals can enjoy, children, marriage, living as a family etc.

The Church NEVER uses the term Gay only every the term HOMOSEXUAL and I think we should follow the same course, not to give them the camoflague of corrupting the useful and enticing English word Gay. Gay means happy, carefree, relaxed, pleasant, entertaining, enjoyment (which is why they choose the word in the first place) sounds so I-want-that doesnt it. Stand up and call them what they are homosexual one who has desires and feelings for a member of the same gender.

While I am virciourous in defending the medico-science, I know it is wrong, unnatural and against the survival of the species, I would also go so far as to say it is a sin of the Devil, the act not the person never the person only God knows that.

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