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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Correct.We were bringing to light his actions wh...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Bernard-2709 said:

Correct.We were bringing to light his actions when he was an Archbishop regarding the Old Latin Mass.


Which you were wrong to critisize because in no way tdid he disobey BXVI modus proprio "Summorum."

Benedict was very clear in "Summorum" that the Ordinary of any diocese has an absolute right to dictate how the liturgy is Publicly clebrated in their Sees.

No priest was given the right to celebrate TLM publicly without permission of his Bishop.

You have absolutely no grounds to claim he disobeyed the Pope on the matter. Obviously, you have the right to be disappointed that Pope Francis did not appear to have much of an inclination to freely allow the public use of TLM in Buenos Airies.

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There is a first hand report of how the Old Mass was said.A mishmash of ruberics,and deletions.rorate-caeli.blogspot.com

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernie-350671 said: I have to disagree with you again. God does not allow evil. Evil is antithetical to the...
(Quote) Bernie-350671 said:

I have to disagree with you again. God does not allow evil. Evil is antithetical to the goodness of God and visa versa. Rather, God has given us freedom of choice and we happen to have chosen a path seperate from God that has invited evil in.

All Popes are human. They make mistakes. I think Pope Francis would be the first to say that only God is perfect.

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God, in fact, allows evil.

After all man has nothing to do with natural disasters or how, where and on whom diseases descend. They result from natural laws He set in motion at creation, even though He knew those evils would result.

He allows the devil to roam the world for whom he may devour.He allows Satan and his minions to tempt us.

All of these are evils and he allows them.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: It has nothing to do with Latin per se.I would like to see the Old Mass celebrated in English.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

It has nothing to do with Latin per se.I would like to see the Old Mass celebrated in English.

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You're avoiding the issue. You have an abosolute obsession with one form of liturgy, and we all know it.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: What's wrong with a little healthy skepticism? Maybe you take all expressions literally. ...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

What's wrong with a little healthy skepticism? Maybe you take all expressions literally.

Like: "There are two ways to skin a cat, yours and mine."
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What's wrong with letting the guy actually do his job before you start registering complaints?

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Would you have said judge not regarding Pope Alexander VI? en.wikipedia.org.
(Quote) John-220051 said:

Would you have said judge not regarding Pope Alexander VI? en.wikipedia.org

Patrica, Jesus is referring to judging someone's soul and not legitimitely raising questions about a person's character and actions. I love it when mostly liberals ignorantly invoke this verse to arrogantly shutdown debate.

The "progressives" started this divisiveness during and immediately after Vatican II when they thought they were founding a new religion. St. Paul said to hold fast to tradition 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and that anyone who teaches another gospel is subject to anathema Galatians 1:8.

I withhold judgment about Pope Francis until I see him in action, but I don't see much to be optimistic about.

If he is another John Paul II the Church in the West is 100 percent finished. JP2 was a terrible administrator who failed to discipline erring bishops and clergy. He covered for the sex abuse scandals. We need a St. Pius X not a John Paul II.
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" The "progressives" started this divisiveness during and immediately after Vatican II when they thought they were founding a new religion. St. Paul said to hold fast to tradition 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and that anyone who teaches another gospel is subject to anathema Galatians 1:8."

Are you sure you are Catholic? This sounds like one of my Fundamentalist friends. Strict word of the bible. Actually Christ gave Peter and his successors authority to guide His church on earth with the help of the Holy Spirit. If the church didn't "progress" we would still be in the catacombs! My mother is 95 and since I am 62 obviously we both grew up in the church pre Vatican ll. We both prefer the way the church is now. Vatican ll brought back many of the wonderful traditions and rituals the church had lost over time. The triduum being an example. The liturgy now is the same in all languages...we are connected. I think many people that are opposed to the changes never took time to understand them or learn about them and their meaning. The church is much more inclusive now. I don't remember Christ sitting at the Last Supper and putting a rail between Him and His followers, then turning His back to them. He wanted us to be WITH Him not apart. Have you ever considered it was MAN and his ego that put priests way up on a pedestal? I am not opposed to the Latin Mass. It is part of my spiritual growth. However there are many ways to grow spiritually and I feel blessed that we have a church that is willing to allow us to follow different ways to grow to God. I believe in the Seat of Peter and the Infallibility of the Pope, not just the ones I choose to believe but ALL of them. Yes, Satan can work on them, but God redeems and makes right His Church. Remember that Christ was a rebel in His own time. He wasn't inflexible. Remember the only people that really got Him upset were the Sadducees and the Pharisees because of their self-rightous indignation about change. They didn't accept Him as the Son, they murdered Him.

During these sex abuse scandals I have done some research because it has touched my life personally in some ways. Did you know there were as many, if not more, sex abuse scandals pre Vatican ll. People were literally afraid of priests because they were untouchable, they were able to get away with bad behavior because no one had the guts to speak out against a priest. Now the walls are coming down and that would never have happened if NOT for Vatican ll, in my opinion.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: What's wrong with letting the guy actually do his job before you start registering co...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

What's wrong with letting the guy actually do his job before you start registering complaints?

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Again,no one is complaining about his performance as a Pope,but when he was Archbishop.He has many good qualities too.Many I highly admire!

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Again,no one is complaining about his performance as a Pope,but when he was Archbishop.He has man...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Again,no one is complaining about his performance as a Pope,but when he was Archbishop.He has many good qualities too.Many I highly admire!

--hide--

Why is anybody complaining at all today?

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: " The "progressives" started this divisiveness during and immediately afte...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:



" The "progressives" started this divisiveness during and immediately after Vatican II when they thought they were founding a new religion. St. Paul said to hold fast to tradition 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and that anyone who teaches another gospel is subject to anathema Galatians 1:8."

Are you sure you are Catholic? This sounds like one of my Fundamentalist friends. Strict word of the bible. Actually Christ gave Peter and his successors authority to guide His church on earth with the help of the Holy Spirit. If the church didn't "progress" we would still be in the catacombs! My mother is 95 and since I am 62 obviously we both grew up in the church pre Vatican ll. We both prefer the way the church is now. Vatican ll brought back many of the wonderful traditions and rituals the church had lost over time. The triduum being an example. The liturgy now is the same in all languages...we are connected. I think many people that are opposed to the changes never took time to understand them or learn about them and their meaning. The church is much more inclusive now. I don't remember Christ sitting at the Last Supper and putting a rail between Him and His followers, then turning His back to them. He wanted us to be WITH Him not apart. Have you ever considered it was MAN and his ego that put priests way up on a pedestal? I am not opposed to the Latin Mass. It is part of my spiritual growth. However there are many ways to grow spiritually and I feel blessed that we have a church that is willing to allow us to follow different ways to grow to God. I believe in the Seat of Peter and the Infallibility of the Pope, not just the ones I choose to believe but ALL of them. Yes, Satan can work on them, but God redeems and makes right His Church. Remember that Christ was a rebel in His own time. He wasn't inflexible. Remember the only people that really got Him upset were the Sadducees and the Pharisees because of their self-rightous indignation about change. They didn't accept Him as the Son, they murdered Him.

During these sex abuse scandals I have done some research because it has touched my life personally in some ways. Did you know there were as many, if not more, sex abuse scandals pre Vatican ll. People were literally afraid of priests because they were untouchable, they were able to get away with bad behavior because no one had the guts to speak out against a priest. Now the walls are coming down and that would never have happened if NOT for Vatican ll, in my opinion.

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Laura, I do not disagree with your position.

I will only point out that although VII brought back many old traditions that had been neglated. One of the results, not from anything said in the Documents of VII, was that many other traditions were thrown out. Daily rosary disappeared from the majority of Parishes. Benediction, which was a weekly occurance in every parish disappeared and only occur infrequently, if at all, in most parishes. Public weekly Novenas diappeared. The bansihment of the tabernacle to virtually hidden Adoration Chapels happened. Public processions have become the exception rather than the rule.

Again, not because of anything done or said by VII, the Church seems to be operating under a siege mentality. That siege is not just from outside the Church which is terrible, but from within which is even worse.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

Praying that all negative attacks on Pope Francis will stop! Praying pope theheart

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Laura, I do not disagree with your position. I will only point out that although V...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Laura, I do not disagree with your position.

I will only point out that although VII brought back many old traditions that had been neglated. One of the results, not from anything said in the Documents of VII, was that many other traditions were thrown out. Daily rosary disappeared from the majority of Parishes. Benediction, which was a weekly occurance in every parish disappeared and only occur infrequently, if at all, in most parishes. Public weekly Novenas diappeared. The bansihment of the tabernacle to virtually hidden Adoration Chapels happened. Public processions have become the exception rather than the rule.

Again, not because of anything done or said by VII, the Church seems to be operating under a siege mentality. That siege is not just from outside the Church which is terrible, but from within which is even worse.

--hide--


Thank you for pointing these things out. Sometimes I live in my own little bubble. It makes me realize how blessed I am in my diocese. All our churches have daily rosaries before mass in the mornings. Since we have a large Spanish population we have the processions etc. We also have a large Vietnamese populatin who are very devout. We are dedicated to each parish once a month having 24 hour adoration for vocations and Benediction at least once a week. My church has 24 hr adoration M-Thurs and Saturday evenings:) and we pray the Liturgy of the Hours. I agree, I do not like the Adoration Chapels and fortunately only the newer churches have them here. We just got a new bishop and he is even more conservative so we are hoping for those tabernacles to be returned to the alters. I am sharing these things to give you hope. The Diocese of Orange is very traditional in these ways and it's in California:)so it could happen anywhere! I really feel we are going to see a resurgence, things are turning around, God is working. However the parishioners have to stand up and put forth the effort. We wouldn't have these things if someone didn't lead the rosary or sign up to be in the church during Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament. Now that I am more aware I will dedicate my Adoration and Benediction to all the parishes that have been denied. I worked with the teens and the first thing we teach them is Adoration and it was truly a gift to see the Light of Christ on their faces as they knelt before the Eucharist theheart No Catholic should be denied that blessing. This has touched my heart, I will pray much harder for healing of the divisions in our church Praying

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