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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: A lot of supposition going on. First of allI was clear when I said Christ would no...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

A lot of supposition going on.

First of allI was clear when I said Christ would not have allowed Peter to abandon his wife. Although Christ said one should give up everything to follow him, abandonment of ones wife is an inherently evil act and Christ would never allow much less advocate such an act. Abandoning a wife is a sure ticket to hell.

The only thing we know for certain is that Peter had been married. He could have been a widower, he could have had dozens of children and even grandchildren, but the Gospels and both written and oral tradition say nothing about those possibilities. When you think about it, it is all rather meaningless unless one has an ax to grind and Peter carting a family around is important to prove that person's axe.

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Not true at all. A man came to Christ in Luke's Gospel saying "Lord I will follow you but first led me bid farewell to those in my house" Christ responded by saying no man who looks back is fit for the kingdom of heaven.


Following Christ means sacrificing all wordly things, to suffer after Christ means even to lay down ones own life..which is what Peter did. Christ would not command a person to leave His wife, but if the person voluntarily did so out of love for Christ and to give his entire life to Christ, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not a ticket to hell by any means. Look at Luke 18:28-29 "And Peter said, "Lo, we have left our homes and followed you." 29 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life."


Abandoning family is different then leaving family. When a man goes overseas to fight war, he does not abandon his family, but he does leave them and sacrifces the family life for the greater good.

Mar 15th 2013 new

I have always felt that Peter's "mother-in-law" may actually have been his step-mother. Charles Dickens used the term that way, so perhaps it's an inaccuracy of translation?

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:....They said that in the past, priests were able to marryand that this new Pope, whoever it might...
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:....They said that in the past, priests were able to marry
and that this new Pope, whoever it might be, would change the rules.
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Priestly celibacy is only a custom, not a dogma, and only dates from the 10th or 11th century in the Roman church.

Mar 15th 2013 new

“Washington’s Pope”? Who is Pope Francis I? Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio and Argentina’s “Dirty War”

By Prof Michel Chossudovsky


www.globalresearch.ca


I agree with Chossudovsky in that elements in the Catholic Church cooperated in the Dirty War in Argentina. In the case of Argentina this cooperation took on a right-wing flavor. Elsewhere in Latin America Catholic religious orders, especially the Jesuits, backed left-wing movements such as the Sandinistas. The goal of all these movements was to weaken states so that Wall Street could loot them. The complicity of Catholic religious orders in these movements is evidence of their participation in right and left-wing plots against Church and state.

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Sam-948516 said: Not true at all. A man came to Christ in Luke's Gospel saying "Lord I will fo...
(Quote) Sam-948516 said:


Not true at all. A man came to Christ in Luke's Gospel saying "Lord I will follow you but first led me bid farewell to those in my house" Christ responded by saying no man who looks back is fit for the kingdom of heaven.


Following Christ means sacrificing all wordly things, to suffer after Christ means even to lay down ones own life..which is what Peter did. Christ would not command a person to leave His wife, but if the person voluntarily did so out of love for Christ and to give his entire life to Christ, there is nothing wrong with that. It is not a ticket to hell by any means. Look at Luke 18:28-29 "And Peter said, "Lo, we have left our homes and followed you." 29 And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there is no man who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive manifold more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life."


Abandoning family is different then leaving family. When a man goes overseas to fight war, he does not abandon his family, but he does leave them and sacrifces the family life for the greater good.

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Why insist on putting your own meaning into the Gospel narrative.

The only reference in Luke that refers to a rich man, young or old, is in Luke Chap. 8 v 18-30. The narrative does not specify whether he is young or old, only that he was a ruler and rich. In those days, rulers did not tend to be very young. Nor does it say anything about the ruler saying to Jesus that Jesus should allow him to bid farewell to anyone. It merely states that Christ said sell all you have and give to the poor and follow me and that the man went away sad because he was very rich.

Elsewhere in the Gospels, probably Matthew, there is a parable which Christ gives about someone who said that had to go say farewell , another who had to go bury someone, etc.


The only other reference in the New Testament other than the specific reference to Peter's mother-in-law possibly alluding to families of apostles is found in St. Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 9 v. 5. which says, "Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister, as well as the rest of the apostles, and the Brethren of the Lord and Cephas?" The Douay- Rheims version, commenting on this passage states, " "A women, a sister..." Some erroneously translators have corrupted this text by rendering it, " a sister, a wife..." whereas it is certain St. Paul had no wife (Chap7 ver 7 and 8.) and that he only speaks of devout women, as according to the custom of the Jewish nation, waited upon the preachers of the gospel and supplied them with necessities."

Again, there is no evidence in the Gospels, in the New Testament or in written or oral tradition that says anything about any of the Apostles families, marital status or children.

Nor is there any hint anywhere that they left wives with the wife's permission to carry out their mission or that their wives and families accompanied them..

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: Priestly celibacy is only a custom, not a dogma, and only dates from the 10th or 11th century...
(Quote) Marge-938695 said:


Priestly celibacy is only a custom, not a dogma, and only dates from the 10th or 11th century in the Roman church.

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Correction, clelibacy was practised from the very beginning and advocated by St. Paul. Not as a requirement but as a desirable state. It was practised in monasteries Fromm the very beginning, since in the very early days monasteries were formed around hermits who would not have been married in any case.

It did not become a general rule until the period you specify. And it became so because of the influence of monasteries and for the correcting of abuses and scandals.

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Why insist on putting your own meaning into the Gospel narrative. The only referen...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Why insist on putting your own meaning into the Gospel narrative.

The only reference in Luke that refers to a rich man, young or old, is in Luke Chap. 8 v 18-30. The narrative does not specify whether he is young or old, only that he was a ruler and rich. In those days, rulers did not tend to be very young. Nor does it say anything about the ruler saying to Jesus that Jesus should allow him to bid farewell to anyone. It merely states that Christ said sell all you have and give to the poor and follow me and that the man went away sad because he was very rich.

Elsewhere in the Gospels, probably Matthew, there is a parable which Christ gives about someone who said that had to go say farewell , another who had to go bury someone, etc.


The only other reference in the New Testament other than the specific reference to Peter's mother-in-law possibly alluding to families of apostles is found in St. Paul's 1st letter to the Corinthians, Chapter 9 v. 5. which says, "Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister, as well as the rest of the apostles, and the Brethren of the Lord and Cephas?" The Douay- Rheims version, commenting on this passage states, " "A women, a sister..." Some erroneously translators have corrupted this text by rendering it, " a sister, a wife..." whereas it is certain St. Paul had no wife (Chap7 ver 7 and 8.) and that he only speaks of devout women, as according to the custom of the Jewish nation, waited upon the preachers of the gospel and supplied them with necessities."

Again, there is no evidence in the Gospels, in the New Testament or in written or oral tradition that says anything about any of the Apostles families, marital status or children.

Nor is there any hint anywhere that they left wives with the wife's permission to carry out their mission or that their wives and families accompanied them..

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Luke 9 (61-62) detail the story of the man who came to Christ and was told he was unfit because he wished to go back and say farewell.


And the other scripture I gave you in shows Christ saying if you leave your wife (not abandon) to follow me you will have a reward, it is not Luke it is Matthew Chapter 19 verse 29. It is right there, I misquoted it as Luke earlier. When we die, we are not going to be married. the ultimate purpose of life is to make it to heaven, if you leave life for that purpose then you will not go to hell. As Christ tells the apostles in the passage from Luke I gave you in the first comment.

Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Sam-948516 said: Luke 9 (61-62) detail the story of the man who came to Christ and was told he...
(Quote) Sam-948516 said:


Luke 9 (61-62) detail the story of the man who came to Christ and was told he was unfit because he wished to go back and say farewell.


And the other scripture I gave you in shows Christ saying if you leave your wife (not abandon) to follow me you will have a reward, it is not Luke it is Matthew Chapter 19 verse 29. It is right there, I misquoted it as Luke earlier. When we die, we are not going to be married. the ultimate purpose of life is to make it to heaven, if you leave life for that purpose then you will not go to hell. As Christ tells the apostles in the passage from Luke I gave you in the first comment.

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There are only 42 verses in Chapter 9 of St. Luke.

Mar 15th 2013 new
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: The Pope could allow married Priests in the Roman Rite if he gave the permission.I am in favour of that.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

The Pope could allow married Priests in the Roman Rite if he gave the permission.I am in favour of that.

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The Pope should adopt the discipline of the Council of Trullo whereby priests can only marry before ordination and that bishops need to be celibate monks.
Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-866591 said: There are only 42 verses in Chapter 9 of St. Luke.
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

There are only 42 verses in Chapter 9 of St. Luke.

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two of my translations have 62. You are reading chapter 10

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