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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Rebuking Bad Popes

Mar 14th 2013 new
If Alexander VI were Pope today would it be judgmental to rebuke his conduct.

He notoriously kept numerous mistress and was denounced by his successor Julius II who said: ""I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. He desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong to Spain."

The same goes for Pope Honorius I who taught the heresy of Monothelitism. He was condemned by name with the consent of his successor Pope Agatho at the Sixth Ecumenical Council.

And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines. We have also examined the synodal letter of Sophronius of holy memory, some time Patriarch of the Holy City of Christ our God, Jerusalem, and have found it in accordance with the true faith and with the Apostolic teachings, and with those of the holy approved Fathers. Therefore we have received it as orthodox and as salutary to the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and have decreed that it is right that his name be inserted in the diptychs of the Holy Churches. www.newadvent.org

Then you have Pope Nicholas III who Dante mocked as being in hell because he engaged in simony, the sale of Church offices. en.wikipedia.org

If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgement or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII.

Pope Adrian VI
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Mar 14th 2013 new

Thanks for the research John.Prayers for Our New Pontiff and those deceased. Praying

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Mar 15th 2013 new

John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless manner.

I'm sorry that there are so many people who are so down on the Church that they can't ever do anything but complain about it. I'm sorry that some are so bitter and angry that it is evidently a priority to make sure that the rest of us can't even have a whole day to bask in happiness and hope that the new Pope will be able do something good.

Yes, there have been bad, horrible Popes. Yes the human beings running the Church screw things up royally on a regular basis.

But there is an appropriate is a time for everything, and this is not the time for your griping.

If it is SOOO important for you guys to constantly find fault with the Church, why don't you all find yourself a nice atheist or Protestant, or Muslim or some other such website where you can express your complaints to an appreciative audience for a week or two. Let the rest of us actually think happy thoughts about the new Pope for at least a little bit before you start the inevitable complaining.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless m...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless manner.

I'm sorry that there are so many people who are so down on the Church that they can't ever do anything but complain about it. I'm sorry that some are so bitter and angry that it is evidently a priority to make sure that the rest of us can't even have a whole day to bask in happiness and hope that the new Pope will be able do something good.

Yes, there have been bad, horrible Popes. Yes the human beings running the Church screw things up royally on a regular basis.

But there is an appropriate is a time for everything, and this is not the time for your griping.

If it is SOOO important for you guys to constantly find fault with the Church, why don't you all find yourself a nice atheist or Protestant, or Muslim or some other such website where you can express your complaints to an appreciative audience for a week or two. Let the rest of us actually think happy thoughts about the new Pope for at least a little bit before you start the inevitable complaining.

--hide--

Thank you, John, for expressing my sentiments exactly. clap clap clap

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless m...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless manner.

I'm sorry that there are so many people who are so down on the Church that they can't ever do anything but complain about it. I'm sorry that some are so bitter and angry that it is evidently a priority to make sure that the rest of us can't even have a whole day to bask in happiness and hope that the new Pope will be able do something good.

Yes, there have been bad, horrible Popes. Yes the human beings running the Church screw things up royally on a regular basis.

But there is an appropriate is a time for everything, and this is not the time for your griping.

If it is SOOO important for you guys to constantly find fault with the Church, why don't you all find yourself a nice atheist or Protestant, or Muslim or some other such website where you can express your complaints to an appreciative audience for a week or two. Let the rest of us actually think happy thoughts about the new Pope for at least a little bit before you start the inevitable complaining.

--hide--
We love the Church and the Papacy John.We will continue to discuss and point out errors past and present.That's what these Forums are for.Maybe these discussions aren't for you.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: We love the Church and the Papacy John.We will continue to discuss and point out errors past and ...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

We love the Church and the Papacy John.We will continue to discuss and point out errors past and present.That's what these Forums are for.Maybe these discussions aren't for you.

--hide--

I see.

So in your world, it would be just fine to loudly talk about a bride's past romantic partners while at her wedding reception. After all, the fact that you are friends with the bride means there is no reason why you shouldn't discuss and point out her past and present errors during what is supposed to be a happy time for her, right?

I repeat my complaint about you guys being crass and tasteless.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless m...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

John, you, Bernard, and a number of others have been acting in an incredibly crass and tasteless manner.

I'm sorry that there are so many people who are so down on the Church that they can't ever do anything but complain about it. I'm sorry that some are so bitter and angry that it is evidently a priority to make sure that the rest of us can't even have a whole day to bask in happiness and hope that the new Pope will be able do something good.

Yes, there have been bad, horrible Popes. Yes the human beings running the Church screw things up royally on a regular basis.

But there is an appropriate is a time for everything, and this is not the time for your griping.

If it is SOOO important for you guys to constantly find fault with the Church, why don't you all find yourself a nice atheist or Protestant, or Muslim or some other such website where you can express your complaints to an appreciative audience for a week or two. Let the rest of us actually think happy thoughts about the new Pope for at least a little bit before you start the inevitable complaining.

--hide--

Agreed! You know, I was really impressed. It only took 12 hours by my count before the articles about Papa Francis' history started coming out. You know, how he kidnapped some priests who were fighting some evil dictator? So obviouusly our new Pope is a jerk who wants to kill everyone and rape little boys.

Papa Benedict was a Nazi. Papa John Paul II was a paedophile and closet homo.

I expect this sort of nonsense from Protestants, atheists and others of a secular bent, not from Catholics. Yes, there's been dodgy Popes, but that was a very long time ago. Everytime Germany elects a new leader you don't have the world's media digging through their garbage for criminal behaviours or bringing up Hitler.

So lets just enjoy the elation and celebration that God has given us a new Papa, and then we can listen to the petty insults and unfounded allegations in a few years. Along with the usual curmudgeonly outrage that the Pope still says condoms are still bad.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: If Alexander VI were Pope today would it be judgmental to rebuke his conduct. He notoriously kept...
(Quote) John-220051 said: If Alexander VI were Pope today would it be judgmental to rebuke his conduct.

He notoriously kept numerous mistress and was denounced by his successor Julius II who said: ""I will not live in the same rooms as the Borgias lived. He desecrated the Holy Church as none before. He usurped the papal power by the devil's aid, and I forbid under the pain of excommunication anyone to speak or think of Borgia again. His name and memory must be forgotten. It must be crossed out of every document and memorial. His reign must be obliterated. All paintings made of the Borgias or for them must be covered over with black crepe. All the tombs of the Borgias must be opened and their bodies sent back to where they belong to Spain."

The same goes for Pope Honorius I who taught the heresy of Monothelitism. He was condemned by name with the consent of his successor Pope Agatho at the Sixth Ecumenical Council.

And with these we define that there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines. We have also examined the synodal letter of Sophronius of holy memory, some time Patriarch of the Holy City of Christ our God, Jerusalem, and have found it in accordance with the true faith and with the Apostolic teachings, and with those of the holy approved Fathers. Therefore we have received it as orthodox and as salutary to the holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and have decreed that it is right that his name be inserted in the diptychs of the Holy Churches. www.newadvent.org

Then you have Pope Nicholas III who Dante mocked as being in hell because he engaged in simony, the sale of Church offices. en.wikipedia.org

If by the Roman Church you mean its head or pontiff, it is beyond question that he can err even in matters touching the faith. He does this when he teaches heresy by his own judgement or decretal. In truth, many Roman pontiffs were heretics. The last of them was Pope John XXII.

Pope Adrian VI
--hide--

What heresy the John XXIII fall into.

No Pope, even the worst of them, ever definitively published or promulgated a doctirne that was heretical.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: We love the Church and the Papacy John.We will continue to discuss and point out errors past and ...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

We love the Church and the Papacy John.We will continue to discuss and point out errors past and present.That's what these Forums are for.Maybe these discussions aren't for you.

--hide--

And who does it benefit to dig up such a past at such a time?

It seems more like a trick of the secular media than one from catholics.

Yes, I'll be admit, I'll be the first in line to rail about previous Popes. And we should always acknowledge our Church's sins, seeking forgiveness where appropriate, especially the really bad ones, but its important to express a little self restraint in how we express it. There's enough people who are ready, willing and able to attack the Church, do we need to be adding our voices to it because we're a little uncomfortable about the Crusades or witchburnings or covering up paedophilia? Especially now. We have a new Pope. He's been in the job only a day. Maybe we can hold out a little longer before we start the traditional mud slinging.

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Mar 15th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: I see. So in your world, it would be just fine to loudly talk about a bride's ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

I see.

So in your world, it would be just fine to loudly talk about a bride's past romantic partners while at her wedding reception. After all, the fact that you are friends with the bride means there is no reason why you shouldn't discuss and point out her past and present errors during what is supposed to be a happy time for her, right?

I repeat my complaint about you guys being crass and tasteless.

--hide--

I would add that their posts are also disrespectful (to Pope Frances and to me in Pope Francis thread), immature (calling names, not waiting even 1 day before attacking Pope Francis), and arrogant ( because I sincerely doubt that anyone attacking Pope Frances has any real theological credentials from a reputable university).

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