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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

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03/15/2013 new

This is what Benedict said/and didn't say about the issue:

catholicism.about.com

As far as Francis goes, I saw a good quote about this: the position is not that of the Pope, it is the position of the Church, which does not change with the change of the Pope.

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said: And neither the Catechism or Humane Vitae discuss sex outside of marriage. The could ...
(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said:

And neither the Catechism or Humane Vitae discuss sex outside of marriage. The could have but the deliberately don't.



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They do not specifically because if they are not ok within the contexts of marriage, due to the sin that comes with them in the context of marriage, they will not be ok outside of marriage period, because sex outside of marriage, under any circumstances, is a mortal sin. Condoms encourage sex outside of marriage so they encourage a mortal sin. Not only that, but sex outside of marriage not allowing the natural act of sex to be carried out, is adding another sin to it. Having children is not a sin... sex outside of marriage is...sex in the right context is not a sin. But if you first remove sex from its proper context, outside of marriage, and then interefere with the natural law by using contraception, then you have multiplied, not reduced the grave sins.

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03/15/2013 new
I don't understand why people are constantly trying to find loopholes. Condoms are not okay and not permissible. The doctrine is not gonna change.
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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Marge-938695 said: 2. Saying that using a condom is better than not (in other cases) is like saying, "If you're go...
(Quote) Marge-938695 said: 2. Saying that using a condom is better than not (in other cases) is like saying, "If you're going to hit your wife, use an open hand instead of a closed fist" or (isn't it Mohammed who says this?) "If you beat your wife the stick must be slimmer than your thumb".

The wife beating/illicit sex is the EVIL...the discussion is about small differences in the degree of wrongness.

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Well, this is like the incrementalism debate in abortion. I'd rather see a law that restricts the terrible evil of abortion rather than a vacuum in the law. I'd rather see people sinning and not dying so that they can repent rather than them sinning and getting terminal illnesses.

It's not about you or your personal morality. The condom issue being discussed is for those that are having "illicit sex". And millions are having it daily. It's about reaching to people where you find them.

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Sam-948516 said: and the CCC also in 2399 and 2370 also discuss the issue
(Quote) Sam-948516 said: and the CCC also in 2399 and 2370 also discuss the issue

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2370 falls under the heading "the Fecundity of MARRIAGE"

2399 "Offences against the Dignity of MARRAGE"


We're not talking about marriage. We're talking about whether a condom outside of marriage woould increase the gravity of the offence of pre-marital sex or if failure to wear a condom woild increase the sins gravity.

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Sam-948516 said: They do not specifically because if they are not ok within the contexts of marriage, due to the sin that c...
(Quote) Sam-948516 said: They do not specifically because if they are not ok within the contexts of marriage, due to the sin that comes with them in the context of marriage, they will not be ok outside of marriage period, because sex outside of marriage, under any circumstances, is a mortal sin.
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Sex outside of marriage without condom ='s mortal sin

Sex outside of marriage with condom ='s mortal sin

Sex outside of marriage with condom = Sex outside of marriage without condom

Sex outside of marriage without condom with disease = mortal sin of sex outside of marriage + mortal sin of attempted murder

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03/15/2013 new

There is no doctrine...

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: I don't understand why people are constantly trying to find loopholes. Condoms are not okay and not ...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: I don't understand why people are constantly trying to find loopholes. Condoms are not okay and not permissible. The doctrine is not gonna change.
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Find me ONE quote where the church doctrinally speaks against condom use outside of marriage.

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said: We're talking about whether a condom outside of marriage woould increase the gravity of th...
(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said:

We're talking about whether a condom outside of marriage woould increase the gravity of the offence of pre-marital sex or if failure to wear a condom woild increase the sins gravity.

--hide--

Sex outside marriage is a mortal sin. complete separation from God and His grace. It doesn't get any more grave than that. Your question is akin to asking if it is worse if you kill someone by shooting them in the head or through the heart.

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03/15/2013 new

(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said: Sex outside of marriage without condom ='s mortal sin Sex outside of m...
(Quote) Theodoric-68091 said:


Sex outside of marriage without condom ='s mortal sin

Sex outside of marriage with condom ='s mortal sin

Sex outside of marriage with condom = Sex outside of marriage without condom

Sex outside of marriage without condom with disease = mortal sin of sex outside of marriage + mortal sin of attempted murder

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Condoms don't prevent the transmission of HIV, they only reduce the risk. Thus, wearing a condom does not eliminate the "attempted murder" culpability where it exist.

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