Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

error: Post not found!

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Mar 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Andrew-560653 said: after debating back and forth with one gentleman. This is what he replied to me, "You are in a sma...
(Quote) Andrew-560653 said: after debating back and forth with one gentleman. This is what he replied to me, "You are in a small minority of people that believe that works are necessary for salvation. Almost none of the great theologians would agree with you. Maybe the Catholic church. My last point would be to just continue seeking the truth and we will find it."
--hide--
That small minority is 1.2 billion faithful (give or take). That would consitute a simple majority based upon any single Christian denomination, and possibly the outright majority of all combined Christian denominations worldwide.

Mar 19th 2013 new
(Quote) John-146319 said: That small minority is 1.2 billion faithful (give or take). That would consitute a simple majority based upon an...
(Quote) John-146319 said:

That small minority is 1.2 billion faithful (give or take). That would consitute a simple majority based upon any single Christian denomination, and possibly the outright majority of all combined Christian denominations worldwide.

--hide--


John, here was my response to him. Please anyone if I was wrong with what I said in the following please correct me.

" I don't think you are that familiar with the world. There are over 1.2 billion Catholics, www.bbc.co.uk

A lot of people believe you have to have Faith + Works because this is what the Catholic Church has been teaching for 2000 + Years. Martin Luther's Message has been only preached for the last 500 years.

The current canon of Scripture was affirmed at the Council of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus, which included all and only the seventy-three books Catholics honor today. This canon was repeated at Hippo and at Carthage (A.D. 393 and 397, respectively) and has been repeated ever since.

It was Martin Luther who tossed out the seven books considered canonical since the beginning of Church history. He also rejected the epistle to the Hebrews and the book of Revelation. He also called the epistle of James "an epistle of straw" because James 2:1426 conflicted with his personal theology on good works. He also added the word (in his German translation) only in Romans 3:20 and Romans 4:15, and he inserted the word alone in Romans 3:28.

Now Revelation 22:18 which really only applies to the book of revelations, but one can argue that would also apply to the whole bible. Martin Luther was plagued with a disease at the end of his life and even said that we should burn the Jewish synagogues. He himself became delusional at the end of his life.

Actually a lot of the great theologians would agree with me especially if you start looking at the early church Fathers. Who are you considering the great theologians? Read about St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Ignatius of Antioch.

"Do not err, my brethren. If any man follows him that makes a schism in the Church, he shall not inherit the kingdom of God." - St. Ignatius of Antioch ("Epistle to the Philadelphians," 105 A.D.)

I would highly recommend that you should really re-look at the history of the creation of the bible and that views of the early church Fathers. "
Mar 19th 2013 new
and his response back, "I have and I don't agree with Catholic doctrine. If you want to place your trust in the Catholic church over the teachings of the Bible, that is your choice. I have had these conversations before with Catholics. If there teaching agrees with the greatest of theologians and possibility the greatest Christian that ever walked the earth, the apostle Paul, then I might accept them. But Paul, who made it clear that he got his gospel directly from Christ, does not teach a works salvation. I really don't need nor care what the early church fathers had to say. I will hold to the teachings of the New Testament. My faith is based on the Bible only, not apostolic succession and an unbiblical view that these people were infallible. Peter certainly wasn't nor was he the first Pope. The word Pope was not even used then. He was not the leader, but a leader. In Acts 8 the apostles of the church sent men to Samaria after hearing that they had received the Gospel. Peter happened to be one that was sent. Doesn't appear that he was the leader or he would be doing the sending. Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia, and in Acts 15, the head of the council was not Peter but James. I have no desire to debate further. I have heard it all from other zealous Catholics and really have felt that it was a waste of time to debate with them. So let us part ways with the hope that we both will be in heaven someday because of Jesus sacrifice."
Mar 19th 2013 new

(Quote) Andrew-560653 said:and his response back, "I have and I don't agree with Catholic doctrine. If you want to place y...
(Quote) Andrew-560653 said:and his response back, "I have and I don't agree with Catholic doctrine. If you want to place your trust in the Catholic church over the teachings of the Bible, that is your choice. I have had these conversations before with Catholics. If there teaching agrees with the greatest of theologians and possibility the greatest Christian that ever walked the earth, the apostle Paul, then I might accept them. But Paul, who made it clear that he got his gospel directly from Christ, does not teach a works salvation. I really don't need nor care what the early church fathers had to say. I will hold to the teachings of the New Testament. My faith is based on the Bible only, not apostolic succession and an unbiblical view that these people were infallible. Peter certainly wasn't nor was he the first Pope. The word Pope was not even used then. He was not the leader, but a leader. In Acts 8 the apostles of the church sent men to Samaria after hearing that they had received the Gospel. Peter happened to be one that was sent. Doesn't appear that he was the leader or he would be doing the sending. Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia, and in Acts 15, the head of the council was not Peter but James. I have no desire to debate further. I have heard it all from other zealous Catholics and really have felt that it was a waste of time to debate with them. So let us part ways with the hope that we both will be in heaven someday because of Jesus sacrifice."
--hide--
Andrew, I doubt he will bother because he sounds pretty convinced on what he believes. You can't post these if you want , they are the reason Marcus Grodi converted to catholicism. Good Luck

The Verses I Never
Saw

Marcus C
Grodi

Proverbs
3:5-6

“Trust in the
Lord with all you heart, And lean not unto your own understanding; In all your
ways acknowledge Him. And He will direct your paths.”

1 Timothy 3: 14-15 (The
Church)

“I hope to come to you soon, but I am
writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how
one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living
God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. “

2 Timothy 3:14-17
(Scripture)

“But as for you, continue in what you have
learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from
childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to
instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is
inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and
for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for
every good work. “

2 Thessalonians 2:15 (Sacred
Tradition)

“So then,
brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us,
either by word of mouth or by letter. “

Matthew 16:13-19
(Peter)

“And Jesus
answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not
revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are
Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall
not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and
whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.’"

Revelation 14:13 (Importance of
works)

And I heard a
voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord
henceforth." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their
labors, for their deeds follow them!"

Romans 10:14-15
(Ordination)

“But how are men
to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in
him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?
And how can men preach unless they are sent?”

John 15: 4 and 6:56
(Eucharist)

“Abide in me, and
I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the
vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. “

“He who eats my
flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

Colossians 1:24
(Suffering)

“Now I rejoice in
my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in
Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,

Luke 1:46-49
(Mary)

“And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the
Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low
estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me
blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his
name.’”




Mar 19th 2013 new

You can post this not can't ???

Mar 19th 2013 new
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: Andrew, I doubt he will bother because he sounds pretty convinced on what he believes. You can't post thes...
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

Andrew, I doubt he will bother because he sounds pretty convinced on what he believes. You can't post these if you want , they are the reason Marcus Grodi converted to catholicism. Good Luck



The Verses I Never
Saw



Marcus C
Grodi





Proverbs
3:5-6


“Trust in the
Lord with all you heart, And lean not unto your own understanding; In all your
ways acknowledge Him. And He will direct your paths.”





1 Timothy 3: 14-15 (The
Church)


“I hope to come to you soon, but I am
writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how
one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living
God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. “





2 Timothy 3:14-17
(Scripture)


“But as for you, continue in what you have
learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from
childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to
instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All scripture is
inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and
for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for
every good work. “





2 Thessalonians 2:15 (Sacred
Tradition)


“So then,
brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us,
either by word of mouth or by letter. “





Matthew 16:13-19
(Peter)


“And Jesus
answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not
revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are
Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall
not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and
whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.’"





Revelation 14:13 (Importance of
works)


And I heard a
voice from heaven saying, "Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord
henceforth." "Blessed indeed," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their
labors, for their deeds follow them!"





Romans 10:14-15
(Ordination)


“But how are men
to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in
him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher?
And how can men preach unless they are sent?”





John 15: 4 and 6:56
(Eucharist)


“Abide in me, and
I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the
vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. “





“He who eats my
flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.





Colossians 1:24
(Suffering)


“Now I rejoice in
my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in
Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church,





Luke 1:46-49
(Mary)


“And Mary said, ‘My soul magnifies the
Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior, for he has regarded the low
estate of his handmaiden. For behold, henceforth all generations will call me
blessed; for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his
name.’”






--hide--


Thanks Thomas!
Mar 19th 2013 new
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said: You can post this not can't ???
(Quote) Thomas-699657 said:

You can post this not can't ???

--hide--


hahah I caught that too. I
Mar 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Andrew-560653 said: I'm currently in a debate regarding this topic and i'm currently stuck with where they a...
(Quote) Andrew-560653 said:

I'm currently in a debate regarding this topic and i'm currently stuck with where they are citing Gal 2:16 www.biblegateway.com

--hide--

1 Timothy 2:3-4 says that God wills that ALL MEN have salvation and knowledge of the truth.

Let's say that there is a little baby, 2 years old. If, God forbid, he was to die, would he go to heaven or hell? He doesn't have faith, does he? Yet God wills his salvation (1 Tim 2:3-4). So God wills it, so the baby is saved.

Now ask your dialogue partner where in the Bible it says that the baby loses his salvation and has to "get saved" at a certain age.... It doesn't. He holds to sola scriptura and believes that everything about salvation can be found on the pages of the Bible, but this critical piece cannot. Moreover, your opponent holds to once saved always saved, so now he's really stuck. If he tries to "unsave" the baby somehow, then he has contradicted his OSAS position and admitted that he's wrong on salvation. You win.

Now take him to Hebrews 10:25-29. This is the passage that describes mortal sin. It contains the three conditions: grave matter, in this case forsaking the assembly (failure to attend Mass), deliberate intent and full knowledge. It then says that once one has met those conditions, "there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins..." but a prospect of fiery judgment. The only sacrifice for sins is Calvary; thus, if you commit a mortal sin, you're cut off from salvation. The opponent will likely say that because this is from Hebrews it only applies to the Jews, but have him look carefully at verse 29, which clearly shows that it is directed to those who have been sanctified by the blood of Christ--Christians.

At that point you can explain the power of the keys to the kingdom (Mt. 16:19), Christ breathing on the Apostles to give them the power to forgive sins (Jn 20:23), and how only the Catholic and Orthodox Churches can demonstrate that they have that power since they have apostolic succession going back to Christ and the opponent's church does not.

Just remember to be charitable--that's always the hardest part, yet so important. Follow the humble example of our Holy Father.

Mar 23rd 2013 new
The laughable part about this whole debate with Protestants is that they believe works are necessary too. They look down their noses at "bad" people who never read the Bible or go to church or give money to missions. Do they actually think these "sinners" are going to Heaven just because that guy says he "believes in Jesus" ? Bizarre. And yes, rofl to some extent. :p
Mar 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Felicity-929402 said: The laughable part about this whole debate with Protestants is that they believe works are necessary ...
(Quote) Felicity-929402 said: The laughable part about this whole debate with Protestants is that they believe works are necessary too. They look down their noses at "bad" people who never read the Bible or go to church or give money to missions. Do they actually think these "sinners" are going to Heaven just because that guy says he "believes in Jesus" ? Bizarre. And yes, rofl to some extent. :p
--hide--

Felicity, you are absolutely correct. They use a logical fallacy called special pleading: "You don't have to do anything to be saved... EXCEPT go to our altar call!" And they do this while saying grace is unmerited... hello... either it's unmerited or it's not. You can baptize a baby precisely because the baby has done nothing to earn it, and yet they don't agree with that... ugh.

Posts 11 - 20 of 31