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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: By your criteria, then, so is France or Germany because they are states for French and ...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

By your criteria, then, so is France or Germany because they are states for French and Germans. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are hardly democracies since the first is an oligarcy and the other is a monarchy, but there is nothing in and of itself incompatible with a confessional state (which Israel is not) and a Republic (which we are, as opposed to a democracy).

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Apples and oranges, Steven. Judaism is a religion, not a nationality. Most Israelis are European in origin (Ashkenazi) and are not decended from the Jews who inhabited the region a few thousand years ago.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: Apples and oranges, Steven. Judaism is a religion, not a nationality. Most Israelis are European ...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

Apples and oranges, Steven. Judaism is a religion, not a nationality. Most Israelis are European in origin (Ashkenazi) and are not decended from the Jews who inhabited the region a few thousand years ago.

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Judaism is a religion, but the Jews are also a nationality by modern standards because they are of the Tribe of Judah. Thus one can be called an atheist Jew (a member of the tribe of Judah that does not believe in God), or even a Catholic Jew (a member of the tribe of Judah that is Catholic).

Israel was founded as a secular nation-state for people of Jewish and Israelite descent to live in. It was not founded as a theocracy, and Arabs that live in Israel have full rights of citizenship, as the Prager video pointed out. That was intentional, as the founder of Political Zionism, Theodore Hertzl, wasn't even a believer in Judaism, but was a German atheist as was popular among the elite of his time.

en.wikipedia.org

My last comment stands.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Judaism is a religion, but the Jews are also a nationality by modern standards because ...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Judaism is a religion, but the Jews are also a nationality by modern standards because they are of the Tribe of Judah. Thus one can be called an atheist Jew (a member of the tribe of Judah that does not believe in God), or even a Catholic Jew (a member of the tribe of Judah that is Catholic).

Israel was founded as a secular nation-state for people of Jewish and Israelite descent to live in. It was not founded as a theocracy, and Arabs that live in Israel have full rights of citizenship, as the Prager video pointed out. That was intentional, as the founder of Political Zionism, Theodore Hertzl, wasn't even a believer in Judaism, but was a German atheist as was popular among the elite of his time.

en.wikipedia.org

My last comment stands.

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My comments stand as well. I like Prager, but he's speaking from his heart and not his head. Something that needs to be said: Showing excessive favoritism to any foreign country is not the definition of an American patriot. Read George Washington's farewell address.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: My comments stand as well. I like Prager, but he's speaking from his heart and not his head. ...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

My comments stand as well. I like Prager, but he's speaking from his heart and not his head. Something that needs to be said: Showing excessive favoritism to any foreign country is not the definition of an American patriot. Read George Washington's farewell address.

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Now you are changing the subject. You found this "funny" because you believe that, as a supposedly confessional state Israel doesn't deserve to exist as it presently stands.

We showed that, in fact, the state of Israel is a liberal nation state defined in the same lines as many European nation states that do not receive opprobrium as "apartheid states." Therefore the posting was unfunny because it was patently untrue.

Your comments fell, but you refuse to admit it, so you've changed your objection to that of "leadership by example" grounds. That doesn't fly either.

Mar 24th 2013 new
(Quote) Peter-449116 said: As Rush would say, "Stop the tape!" I like Dennis Prager, but he's hardly objective. Israeli arab...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

As Rush would say, "Stop the tape!" I like Dennis Prager, but he's hardly objective. Israeli arabs (those living within the green line of what is internationally recognized as Israel) do not have all the benefits of citizenship that Jewish Israelis do. Remember, Israel chooses to refer to itself as a Jewish state, which by it's very nature is incompatible with being a democracy. Look at Egypt, or Saudi Arabia.



I only posted this because it is sarcastic humor by ISRAELIS. Like I said, everyone gets the humor but Americans.

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There are ~49 Muslim-majority countries in the world! en.wikipedia.org

Not to mention their terrifying formation of the United States of Islam in the Middle East! www.flickr.com

By stark contrast, Israel is the only country where Jews are the majority of the population! Let them be!!!
Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Now you are changing the subject. You found this "funny" because you believe ...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Now you are changing the subject. You found this "funny" because you believe that, as a supposedly confessional state Israel doesn't deserve to exist as it presently stands.

We showed that, in fact, the state of Israel is a liberal nation state defined in the same lines as many European nation states that do not receive opprobrium as "apartheid states." Therefore the posting was unfunny because it was patently untrue.

Your comments fell, but you refuse to admit it, so you've changed your objection to that of "leadership by example" grounds. That doesn't fly either.

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As I've said before Steven, we all choose our own truth- that which fits within our comfort zones. You deny the existence of the Israeli occupation because to do otherwise makes you uncomfortable. I choose to believe a Palestinian Christian friend who has lived through it. Like most people, I want Israel to survive and flourish in peace with their neighbors, but they are on a self destructive path. You are perfectly fine with them being in a permanent state of war with their neighbors. I prefer to side with the Vatican and pray for peace. I'll repeat: Americans are unique in that they don't get the humor in the original post because they are for the most part unaware of the occupation. Many Israelis and the rest of the world get it because they are.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-449116 said: As I've said before Steven, we all choose our own truth- that which fits within our comfort z...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

As I've said before Steven, we all choose our own truth- that which fits within our comfort zones. You deny the existence of the Israeli occupation because to do otherwise makes you uncomfortable. I choose to believe a Palestinian Christian friend who has lived through it. Like most people, I want Israel to survive and flourish in peace with their neighbors, but they are on a self destructive path. You are perfectly fine with them being in a permanent state of war with their neighbors. I prefer to side with the Vatican and pray for peace. I'll repeat: Americans are unique in that they don't get the humor in the original post because they are for the most part unaware of the occupation. Many Israelis and the rest of the world get it because they are.

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We don't "choose our truth." We may choose comfortable delusions, but the truth, definitive article, is definitive because it is not a something but someone, namely Jesus Christ the Lord.

Just because most of the world is, to some extent, still anti-Israeli, doesn't change the facts I gave you. The so-called "occupied lands" are in fact controlled by separate sovereign governments, namely Fatah in the West Bank and Hezbollah in the Gaza Strip. Before that, while Israel did occupy them, they were still governed by Jordan in the West Bank and Egypt in the Gaza strip.

Even prior to 1967, those governments "occupied" the Palestinian territories and did not allow either part to be an independent Palestinian state. Neither have any of the Arab governments made a move to integrate the refugees they enticed to leave Israel with the promise of blood and destruction into their nations political and social lives, unlike Israel that grants full rights of citizenship to the Arabs who stayed within Israel's borders.

As Samual Adams famously said, "facts are stubborn things."

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Mary-486033 said: There are ~49 Muslim-majority countries in the world! en.wikipedia.org.
(Quote) Mary-486033 said: There are ~49 Muslim-majority countries in the world! en.wikipedia.org

Not to mention their terrifying formation of the United States of Islam in the Middle East! www.flickr.com

By stark contrast, Israel is the only country where Jews are the majority of the population! Let them be!!!
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Oh believe me Mary, I'm with you there- I wish we would leave them be! That's why I was a Ron Paul supporter. If crazy Netanyahu wants to attack Iran let him, but we need to stay the heck out of it. Shucks, I'll even buy the popcorn. The Muslim world would be dangerous if they all got along, but they seem to be preoccupied with killing each other. That isn't likely to ever change, so your source is irrational paranoia. This is the same kind of brain trust that got us entangled in Korea and Vietnam. Bear in mind that our Military-Industrial Complex is a monster that continuously needs to be fed. If there are no wars on the horizon, they will create them. Right now, Islam is the great boogieman.

Peace~ Dove

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: We don't "choose our truth." We may choose comfortable delusions, but the...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

We don't "choose our truth." We may choose comfortable delusions, but the truth, definitive article, is definitive because it is not a something but someone, namely Jesus Christ the Lord.

Just because most of the world is, to some extent, still anti-Israeli, doesn't change the facts I gave you. The so-called "occupied lands" are in fact controlled by separate sovereign governments, namely Fatah in the West Bank and Hezbollah in the Gaza Strip. Before that, while Israel did occupy them, they were still governed by Jordan in the West Bank and Egypt in the Gaza strip.

Even prior to 1967, those governments "occupied" the Palestinian territories and did not allow either part to be an independent Palestinian state. Neither have any of the Arab governments made a move to integrate the refugees they enticed to leave Israel with the promise of blood and destruction into their nations political and social lives, unlike Israel that grants full rights of citizenship to the Arabs who stayed within Israel's borders.

As Samual Adams famously said, "facts are stubborn things."

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I agree with you Steven, most Americans have chosen that comfortable delusion. And we agree that Jesus Christ is the personification of truth. What is left of the West Bank, slowly eaten away by the "imaginary" settlements, is actually controlled by the Israeli Defense Forces. Gaza is controlled by Hamas, a threat to Israel but not the US.

Mar 24th 2013 new
(Quote) Peter-449116 said: (Quote) Mary-486033 said: There are ~49 Muslim-majority countries in the world! http://en.wikip...
(Quote) Peter-449116 said:

Quote:
Mary-486033 said: There are ~49 Muslim-majority countries in the world! en.wikipedia.org

Not to mention their terrifying formation of the United States of Islam in the Middle East! www.flickr.com

By stark contrast, Israel is the only country where Jews are the majority of the population! Let them be!!!

Oh believe me Mary, I'm with you there- I wish we would leave them be! That's why I was a Ron Paul supporter. If crazy Netanyahu wants to attack Iran let him, but we need to stay the heck out of it. Shucks, I'll even buy the popcorn. The Muslim world would be dangerous if they all got along, but they seem to be preoccupied with killing each other. That isn't likely to ever change, so your source is irrational paranoia. This is the same kind of brain trust that got us entangled in Korea and Vietnam. Bear in mind that our Military-Industrial Complex is a monster that continuously needs to be fed. If there are no wars on the horizon, they will create them. Right now, Islam is the great boogieman.



Peace~

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That's not what I meant when I said, "Leave them be!" rolling eyes

And, concern about the Islamic world is far from "irrational paranoia"! faint

However, we certainly don't want involved in any more wars....if it can be avoided. But...unfortunately...Iran is nuts!
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