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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Mar 24th 2013 new
Yes. Have done it in the past.
Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: By the heck does everything have to be so complicated? Of course they can be friends. I have lots...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

By the heck does everything have to be so complicated? Of course they can be friends. I have lots of male friends who are Catholic who are not married, and we're all on the same page as to what the relationship status is.

I also have lots of male friends who are married, older than me, and younger than me. I don't rule out friendships based on maritial status, neither mine nor their's.

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Naomi,

I'll give you an A for brevity but I don't believe you have read the post; you are confusing acquaintances with friends, and I clearly differentiate between the two.

I would also point out that you would not have male married friends who you were emotionally intimate with, as keeping company with another's spouse to this extent is forbidden by the Church. I have read enough of your posts to say with certainty that you take the Church's teachings seriously enough that you would not sin either by doing this or by giving scandal.


Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Beverly-936499 said: I have a personal male friend who is truly as close as a brother to me, who feels like my broth...
(Quote) Beverly-936499 said:

I have a personal male friend who is truly as close as a brother to me, who feels like my brother, and who is certainly my brother in Christ. I am very fortunate to have that friendship. I've never once, and neither has he, ever felt any romantic type of emotion about our relationship. That kind of friendship probably does not happen often, but I know that it can exist.

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How long have you known this person? And are you certain he doesn't have greater plans than you?

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: How long have you known this person? And are you certain he doesn't have greater plans t...
(Quote) William-607613 said: How long have you known this person? And are you certain he doesn't have greater plans than you?
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About 3 years. Absolutely, most emphatically certain that there is no romantic envolvement or desire for any on either part. His daughter will graduate from highschool and enter college in a little more than a year, at which time he will be entering the priesthood.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Pat-5351 said: It is exactly like was said in "when Harry Met Sally"--if neither one has any romantic feel...
(Quote) Pat-5351 said:

It is exactly like was said in "when Harry Met Sally"--if neither one has any romantic feelings/sexual attraction to the other, then yes.

If either one does, then no, not real friends in the true sense of the word--the one with the feelings is always hoping.

And if both have romantic feelings, and sexual attraction, then yes--they can be best friends, the kind we all hope for in our spouse.o

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Yes, I think that I agree with your reply since I have personally experienced both situations. I have a female friend visiting me in a couple of weeks to stay at my house for a weekend. I have an extra bath and guest bedroom so I welcome friends to visit since I don't have many in the area. She has done this before and I have also visited her at her place. If I was sexually attracted to her and wanted to be romantic, it would not be appropriate for a woman to be staying in the same house without being married; even though that may seem normal in our times.

It may seem like a scandal for a woman to visit me for a weekend since the neighbors may notice; if I thought they would notice I probably wouldn't invite her since I don't like people to gossip.

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Beverly-936499 said: About 3 years. Absolutely, most emphatically certain that there is no romantic envo...
(Quote) Beverly-936499 said:




About 3 years. Absolutely, most emphatically certain that there is no romantic envolvement or desire for any on either part. His daughter will graduate from highschool and enter college in a little more than a year, at which time he will be entering the priesthood.

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Beverly,

Thanks for that input. I hadn't even considered how a vocation to religious life would fit into my idea, but it would clearly explain something keeping the two of you from proceeding to marriage.

Mar 24th 2013 new

Speaking from my CM experience , I think a guy and a woman, who are both free to marry and are both unattached, cannot be just "friends" because one of them is/will be wanting to take the friendship to the next level.

I think dating a guy with a special woman friend is a waste of time and I would rather stay home and watch TV. Why date a guy with a "best friend" when there plenty of fish in the ocean?

Dating is already an arduous and time consuming activity, why waste time dating a guy with a "Friend" ? Dating can also be expensive. So why waste money on a guy or a woman who has a "friend" lurking in the background who perhaps is secretly waiting for him /her to see him/her as a romantic partner?

I consider a man's special or best "friend" as baggage. I'd rather be alone than be with this man.

Mar 24th 2013 new

Yes we can be friends.You did cross on a point that is important and that is the closenes to our friends.We have to ensure an emotional chastily to our spouse.Hence when we get involved we still have friends of the opposite sex but not as close as before. two cents two cents

Mar 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Lynea-297530 said: William, that was an awesome post. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, WILLIAM. I ...
(Quote) Lynea-297530 said:

William, that was an awesome post.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU, WILLIAM. I actually so emphatically agree with you, that I got online onto Catholic Match this morning precisely to go on the forums and post the very same topic. Then when I saw your post, I was surprised.

Whatever one wishes to call a friendship where he or she confides personal information, whether they call the person an acquaintance or close friend, that confidence sharing is a type of intimacy. If you are not company keeping with the intention of timely marriage it is simply imprudent, as one person at least is likely to have or develop feelings for the other. Even if that hasn't yet happened, the emotional intimacy is one step closer to more, sans the committment. Take the same two people, even if one is not attracted to the other, at the wrong place and at the wrong time, and it is a near occasion of sin if not worse.

This is even more greivous if someone is doing this while in a courtship. That intimacy of sharing personal information in confidence should be shared with only he or she with whom you have the courtship, and no one else. Otherwise, you are not developing the type of relationship you ought to have by the time you are married. You would have given that intimacy to someone else.

Also, I want to point out that with men this is especially true, as they often hang onto women friends either waiting or hoping that there might be an opportunity to be more. I know this because I have been that friend to guys. For the longest time I didn't understand this, but now that I am older, I have to actually tell my friends in so many words, "Tell this to your girlfriend, not to me." They will almost always make and excuse and complain about their relationship. This is disrespectful to their relationship AND to you. If they have a problem, they ought to deal with it and work it out, not try to get attention and sympathy from another woman, which is really what they are trying to do. It is not cool and you aren't really being a friend at all if you let your guy friends maintain this type of friendship with you. Either you are cordial or you are courting. End of story. The rest of the drama, complications and manipulations belong in highschool.

Women do that sort of thing, too, but I think it is more often men who do this. Which ever way it is, one ought to ask themself, "why would you want to do that?" If your friend is some sort of licensed psychologist, then maybe that is the one exception, but other than in a professional context, it really is a no-no.

The popular excuse against this point of view is, "But we've been friends for years", meaning to imply that nothing is ever going to "happen" because it hasn't yet happened. That is a poor excuse simply because that friend should not still have the same priority (especially) whenever you are courting someone else. Anyone who thinks that things ought to always stay the same, then they are fooling themselves and haven't really a clue what it takes to be fully committed to someone.

Even if that emotional intimacy never expands to the physical, that emotional intimacy alone takes away from what one ought to save and give to the one for whom they are courting or wish to court (or be courted by) in the future. It is not enough to say that you want to marry your best friend, and still have these other friends of the opposite sex that fulfill other areas of your life. People often say it is not 'cheating' if you don't intend on it to go further, but it is either leading the friend on indirectly (or directly) or lying to yourself about your own feelings that you've compartmentalized for this person. Besides, cheating can occur even just by developing emotional intimacy outside of your commitment and shows a lack of prudence, without anything else but the emotional cheating. From what I've read, most affairs by far begin in this manner, and take people off guard because they didn't necessarily 'intend' intially for the relationship to develop beyond friendship.


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Lynea,

This is why the Church forbids us from "keeping company" with someone else's spouse; it doesn't even have to be dating. (Before the critics roll in, I think it's safe to say a reasonable person knows what "keeping company" means.)

A few years ago there were some pieces on what is referred to as an "office spouse," or a co-worker of the opposite sex who one spent time with and took into his or her confidence. There were plenty of warnings written about this; extra-marital relationships often arise between co-workers who are also friends. Even if the relationships mentioned in the articles never reached that point, the spouses who learned about them felt, to a person (man or woman), betrayed by their loved ones.

I simply don't think this kind of intimacy between two members of the opposite sex is possible unless they are married.

Mar 24th 2013 new

I can name five unmarried Catholic men whom I consider my friends under your definition.

We've told each other painful memories, asked each other for advice, cried and comforted, and even helped each other economically.
In none of these cases is romance ever going to be a possibility. And that's okay, because we ARE friends, and there's nothing wrong with that.

BTW, you say "It's the members of the same sex with whom we have the most in common to form any kind of acquaintance". Not true for me. I have no female friends who are my confidants to the same degree as these guys.

I would suggest that most times men and women can't be real friends because they don't allow themselves to try to.

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