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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Mar 27th 2013 new

Marriage is the only institution that unites children with their parents. Not all marriages produce children, but all children have a mum and a dad. Redefining marriage to accomodate same sex couples reduces marriage to an adult-centric institution which is only concerned with the good of the adults. Allowing this redefinintion on the bassis of "love" and the wants of adults, will open the door to all sorts of relationships being legally acknowledge. If society wants to protect children, it must protect the male/female marriage.

As an asside, Religion has no monopoly on marriage. Marriage is simply the word we give to legally recognise a unquie and irreplaceable relationship dynamic that exists within the human condition.

There is no such thing as "gay marriage", that is a legal fiction and semantically incorrect.

Problem with the homosexual lobby, their propaganda machine focusses, and does it very well, on simple catch phrases that have not a grain of truth but are easy to remember and spout out.

Anyone recall "my body, my choice" BS?

Mar 28th 2013 new
(Quote) Gary-936836 said: I don't think a rich, coherent view of sexuality can be reduced to 140 characters or less, unfortunately, an...
(Quote) Gary-936836 said:

I don't think a rich, coherent view of sexuality can be reduced to 140 characters or less, unfortunately, and it seems we're up against slogans such as "love has no gender".



Until people learn critical thinking, which will happen on the 11th of Never, I think we just have to try our best to get people to listen for longer. Summarizing won't work on this since we're trying to explain to people who just have a wrong worldview so many steps before the question of sexuality itself.



But perhaps I'm just being pessimistic. Lord, have mercy.

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English lacks the precision of Greek when it comes to describing love. We are called to have agape (unconditional brotherly love) toward people of the same sex, but the eros is supposed to be reserved for marriage between a man and a woman for the purpose of being open to procreation.
Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: English lacks the precision of Greek when it comes to describing love. We are called to have agap...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

English lacks the precision of Greek when it comes to describing love. We are called to have agape (unconditional brotherly love) toward people of the same sex, but the eros is supposed to be reserved for marriage between a man and a woman for the purpose of being open to procreation.
--hide--


I would like to clarify that agape love is characterized by commitment, ie a decision to love. Ephesians 5 talks of this sacrifical love. and St Paul draws an analogy between the love that exists between a husband and wife and the love that exists between Christ and the church. Couples are called to love each other in marriage as Christ loved the church and this is the agape love ; the unconditional love.

Eros love on the other hand is the desire or passionate love also referred to as romantic love. and it is supposed to be reserved for marriage. However only eros will not sustain a marriage. Both agape and eros are important.

This is described beautifully by Pope Benedict in his first encyclical, where he describes both agape and eros as essential components of love within the sacrament of marriage. He writes

"Man is truly himself when his body and soul are intimately united; the challenge of eros can be said to be truly overcome when this unification is achieved. Should he aspire to be pure spirit and to reject the flesh as pertaining to his animal nature alone, then spirit and body would both lose their dignity. On the other hand, should he deny the spirit and consider matter, the body, as the only reality, he would likewise lose his greatness. The epicure Gassendi used to offer Descartes the humorous greeting: “O Soul!” And Descartes would reply: “O Flesh!”.[3] Yet it is neither the spirit alone nor the body alone that loves: it is man, the person, a unified creature composed of body and soul, who loves. Only when both dimensions are truly united, does man attain his full stature. Only thus is love —eros—able to mature and attain its authentic grandeur"

Read the document "DEUS CARITAS EST by Pope Bendict www.vatican.va

Mar 28th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: English lacks the precision of Greek when it comes to describing love. We are called to have agap...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

English lacks the precision of Greek when it comes to describing love. We are called to have agape (unconditional brotherly love) toward people of the same sex, but the eros is supposed to be reserved for marriage between a man and a woman for the purpose of being open to procreation.
--hide--

Actually, it's only when we talk about Greek as used by philosophers and theologians that that has any ring of truth to it. There is nothing about Greek that makes it magically precise. ἀγαπή (agape) is used to refer to sexuality, and even illicit sexuality in certain circumstances. φίλη (phile) is also used in such ways. The verb form φιλέω, for instance, is used of Asmodeus' sexual obsession with Sarah in Tobit. Agape is used in Canticles and also in Jeremiah 2:2 in reference to the love of a bride for her groom.

So, really, it's that people who wanted to specify arbitrarily restricted certain words, but in general use, this was not the case. Even in the Bible. Usually, in the NT, though, agape is referring to the special kind of love, but it's special because it's God's love, not because of the Greek word used.

Mar 29th 2013 new

I am aginst it totally but what makes me sad is how some fellow catholics support it. One woman who was in my confermation class and graduateing class from high school shocked me by changeing her facebook profile picture to the "equality" symbol. I challanged a fellow catholic on this subject my arguement was you belive abortion is aginst the churches teaching yet you support same sex marrage. They dodged this subject and said that love is love and it dosen't matter. A woman whom I have been communitacateing with from this site agrees with me on the issue that it is wrong to support same sex marrage and shares my belief of marrage between one man one woman it is alos written in the Gospel accoding to Matthew " He said in reply have you not read from the beginning the createor made them male and female and he said for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joind to his wife and they shall become one flesh" Mt 19:4-5 . My defense to those who choose "equality" and are catholic is that they are ignoreing what is written in the bible about marraige one man and one woman. Also the 10 commandments say "Honor thy mother and father" It clearly does not say honor thy father and father or honor thy mother and mother. I put in my interviw questions a stand agenst same sex marraige and I feel that pepole think that there is something wrong with that. I feel that the church teaches it is wrong and have the right to defend the faith. Another thing is how can one call themself a good practicing catholic if they support it in my oppinion they arn't

Mar 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: Marriage is the only institution that unites children with their parents. Not all marriages produ...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

Marriage is the only institution that unites children with their parents. Not all marriages produce children, but all children have a mum and a dad. Redefining marriage to accomodate same sex couples reduces marriage to an adult-centric institution which is only concerned with the good of the adults. Allowing this redefinintion on the bassis of "love" and the wants of adults, will open the door to all sorts of relationships being legally acknowledge. If society wants to protect children, it must protect the male/female marriage.

As an asside, Religion has no monopoly on marriage. Marriage is simply the word we give to legally recognise a unquie and irreplaceable relationship dynamic that exists within the human condition.

There is no such thing as "gay marriage", that is a legal fiction and semantically incorrect.

Problem with the homosexual lobby, their propaganda machine focusses, and does it very well, on simple catch phrases that have not a grain of truth but are easy to remember and spout out.

Anyone recall "my body, my choice" BS?

--hide--


One more thing to suggest in conversation is that when humankind separates the sex act from procreation, we end up in the situation we are now in where children don't even have access to both parents anymore. Check my thread in another room here.

www.catholicmatch.com

Mar 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Brian-765259 said: I am aginst it totally but what makes me sad is how some fellow catholics support it. One woman w...
(Quote) Brian-765259 said:

I am aginst it totally but what makes me sad is how some fellow catholics support it. One woman who was in my confermation class and graduateing class from high school shocked me by changeing her facebook profile picture to the "equality" symbol. I challanged a fellow catholic on this subject my arguement was you belive abortion is aginst the churches teaching yet you support same sex marrage. They dodged this subject and said that love is love and it dosen't matter. A woman whom I have been communitacateing with from this site agrees with me on the issue that it is wrong to support same sex marrage and shares my belief of marrage between one man one woman it is alos written in the Gospel accoding to Matthew " He said in reply have you not read from the beginning the createor made them male and female and he said for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joind to his wife and they shall become one flesh" Mt 19:4-5 . My defense to those who choose "equality" and are catholic is that they are ignoreing what is written in the bible about marraige one man and one woman. Also the 10 commandments say "Honor thy mother and father" It clearly does not say honor thy father and father or honor thy mother and mother. I put in my interviw questions a stand agenst same sex marraige and I feel that pepole think that there is something wrong with that. I feel that the church teaches it is wrong and have the right to defend the faith. Another thing is how can one call themself a good practicing catholic if they support it in my oppinion they arn't

--hide--

Love truly has no gender. That is absolutely true. You can truly love, care for, and even be willing to die for, someone of either sex. This shouldn't be suppressed or denied in and of itself. It's not the basis of marriage, though. Love is beautiful, and there is a special type of love that is intended to be between a husband and wife only. To oppose SSM is not to discriminate against individuals, because all individuals have the very same limits. Probably one of the best blog posts I've seen on it: www.reclaimingthemind.org (Warning! Evangelical!)

People may appeal to a general sense of fairness that "we can't push our religion on others." That's totally true, of course, but they're using poor reasoning. The opposition to same-sex marriage is not a de fidei doctrine to take on faith alone. It's based on philosophy, science (esp health) and economics. Very concrete facts. Liberals are welcome to their own opinions, but they are not welcome to their own facts.

Mar 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Marian-83994 said: One more thing to suggest in conversation is that when humankind separates the sex act fr...
(Quote) Marian-83994 said:



One more thing to suggest in conversation is that when humankind separates the sex act from procreation, we end up in the situation we are now in where children don't even have access to both parents anymore. Check my thread in another room here.

www.catholicmatch.com

--hide--

I know this is not chartiable to say, but I think a lot of blame can be laid at the feet of the Anglican Church. Their acceptance of contraception opened the flood gates for the vast majority of Protestant denominations to also do so. Now look at the Anglican Church, they're cracking right down the middle [again] over a sexual issue.

But I suppose, what can be expected, their church was born of sexual sin, sadly, it will die because of it also. Unfortunately for the wider Christian community, and even a good number of catholics, they have been infected with these heresies.

I think its so terribly sad, because there's well meaning, God fearing men and women in those churches. Perhaps these issues will nudge them back Home.

The swim across the Tiber ain't that bad...

Mar 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: (Quote) Marian-83994 said: One more thing to suggest in conversati...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

Quote:
Marian-83994 said:



One more thing to suggest in conversation is that when humankind separates the sex act from procreation, we end up in the situation we are now in where children don't even have access to both parents anymore. Check my thread in another room here.

www.catholicmatch.com


I know this is not chartiable to say, but I think a lot of blame can be laid at the feet of the Anglican Church. Their acceptance of contraception opened the flood gates for the vast majority of Protestant denominations to also do so. Now look at the Anglican Church, they're cracking right down the middle [again] over a sexual issue.

But I suppose, what can be expected, their church was born of sexual sin, sadly, it will die because of it also. Unfortunately for the wider Christian community, and even a good number of catholics, they have been infected with these heresies.

I think its so terribly sad, because there's well meaning, God fearing men and women in those churches. Perhaps these issues will nudge them back Home.

The swim across the Tiber ain't that bad...

--hide--


We have to pray for all of these sins to be set right and resolved.

Mar 30th 2013 new

(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: That's what I'm finding, Gary, but I need short little bites I can use, one at a time, t...
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

That's what I'm finding, Gary, but I need short little bites I can use, one at a time, to lead to truth at the end. Spoonfeeding bit by bit may work. It's so difficult. And so important.

--hide--
Unfortunately you're fighting an uphill battle, but that doesn't mean you should give up the fight. There has been an increasing shift in attitudes toward same-sex unions. The pendulum has shifted in their favor. Using the Catholic position on marriage isn't a sure winner any more. The typical response is that the Church must change with the times, which as we know is nonsense. It's true teachings cannot be altered or changed. We're facing a couple generations of ill-informed people (not only Catholics) which also doesn't help.

The move toward same-sex unions is largely based upon emotions and sympathy. Those who want to marry someone of the same gender sometimes have financial reasons in mind (estates, health insurance among them).

Sociologists have long regarded the family unit as the cornerstone of society. Family unit as defined by them consists of a man, woman, and possibly children. Society will cease to function if the birthrate declines. The US is nearing the danger point in this area. If the decline continues, there won't be enough younger people to support the older ones. I shudder to think what will happen to older folks then. Disposable comes to mind. So many elements are intertwined that it's difficult to be succinct about a single issue.

Catholics aren't the only religious institution to hold same-sex unions in disfavor. There are others, but with the media the way it is, the criticism is more often directed at the Church.

Another problem is semantics. Using the term "same-sex marriage" or "gay marriage" isn't correct. It comes down to actually re-defining marriage -- what it is and who is eligible.

Overall, mariage as an institution has lost respect. Consider the number of cohabitants shunning marriage, claiming it's "only a piece of paper". With that mentality, marriages are indeed in danger.

The Church has made great efforts to uphold the teachings of Jesus, who taught that sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong. This applies to all (gay, straights alike). No element of discrimination there.

The concept of the family, long rooted in tradition, is the means to give life when so blessed. Deviations from these teachings have led to the downfall of societies, Rome being an example. "Anything goes" will eventually translate into "everything went". By then it's too late.

There are reportedly studies (mentioned by Relevant Radio speakers) indicating that children in a traditional mother-father setting fare better. The specific studies were not mentioned. Offhand, it seems logical though.

Marriage involves the literal giving of one's self to the other. The biological differences between male and female are complimentary. Marriage involves more than love -- there is sacrifice, trust, permanancy, etc.

The Catholic concept of marriage upholds the dignity of the Sacrament for women, men, and children. No discrimination involved.

I don't think there is a magic sound-byte that will convince people otherwise. The issue involves an understanding of what marriage truly is. What we know is that the attempts to redefine what has existed for thousands of years cannot be for the betterment of society.

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