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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Apr 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Peter, cosmology is the philosophical study of beings in change, which does overlap the...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Peter, cosmology is the philosophical study of beings in change, which does overlap the topic of discussion. Also, in regard to your long response to me: Were I to defer to you, what would you have me do?

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Forgive a dumb Swede here. Are you asking me if you can wait a while with your reply?

Are you sure about cosmology as a philosophical science? The only cosmology I'm aware of is the physical study of cosmos; the origin and evolution thereof. But hey, what do I know?

Apr 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Forgive a dumb Swede here. Are you asking me if you can wait a while with your reply? Are ...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Forgive a dumb Swede here. Are you asking me if you can wait a while with your reply?

Are you sure about cosmology as a philosophical science? The only cosmology I'm aware of is the physical study of cosmos; the origin and evolution thereof. But hey, what do I know?

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I am asking what you would have me do were I to bow in deference to what you tell me.

Re: cosmology

I am sure. It is merely one amongst the classical philosophical sciences (e.g., criteriology, epistemology, minor logic, metaphysics, ontology, cosmology, polemics, psychology, ethics).

Apr 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I am asking what you would have me do were I to bow in deference to what you tell me.
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I am asking what you would have me do were I to bow in deference to what you tell me.

Re: cosmology

I am sure. It is merely one amongst the classical philosophical sciences (e.g., criteriology, epistemology, minor logic, metaphysics, ontology, cosmology, polemics, psychology, ethics).

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With all due respect to the intelligence of people like you and Peter, the dissertations probably aren't helping Rachel much. I believe she is seeking concise and simple explanations to suit her needs. Ascending to a higher intellectual plane doesn't seem likely with her FB friends. (Comment not intended to be insulting to her FB friends either.)

Apr 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: With all due respect to the intelligence of people like you and Peter, the dissertations probably a...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

With all due respect to the intelligence of people like you and Peter, the dissertations probably aren't helping Rachel much. I believe she is seeking concise and simple explanations to suit her needs. Ascending to a higher intellectual plane doesn't seem likely with her FB friends. (Comment not intended to be insulting to her FB friends either.)

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No, this was absolutely a sidetrack to Rachels original question. But as people started to voice the "violation of natural law" angle I had to speak up.

Apr 20th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: I am asking what you would have me do were I to bow in deference to what you tell me.
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



I am asking what you would have me do were I to bow in deference to what you tell me.

Re: cosmology

I am sure. It is merely one amongst the classical philosophical sciences (e.g., criteriology, epistemology, minor logic, metaphysics, ontology, cosmology, polemics, psychology, ethics).

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What I would have you do? Nothing. Or buy yourself an ice cream. Why would I have you do anything?

If it can't be measured, weighed or calculated I have a hard time calling it science. This is not meant to look down upon those who are active in those fields as I merely state that I have a hard time doing so, not that I'm incapable to.

Apr 21st 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: No, this was absolutely a sidetrack to Rachels original question. But as people started to voice ...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

No, this was absolutely a sidetrack to Rachels original question. But as people started to voice the "violation of natural law" angle I had to speak up.

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I certainly understand, Peter.

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Hi, Peter,I do agree that God saw that all He created was good.However,...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Hi, Peter,

I do agree that God saw that all He created was good.

However, after the fall of Adam, all of creation which was originally ordered by God to work with him, now became inordinate to some degree or other, demanding Adam's toil to reap his livelihood from the soil. It was this prevarication of Adam which originated death (corruption) in the material realm of God's creation, spiritual and physical for humans, physical for plants and animals.

The bacterial animal previously created for the purpose in assisting man in the completion of his Due End, now works against him. I won't discuss the virus here, since it is not living matter.

Decay is merely corruption/death of a good, living member of a material being. It is not integral (i.e., contributing to the wholeness of a being); it was never meant by the Creator to happen.

It is not the laws of nature which lead to decay, but rather the physical laws of a fallen universe.

Take for example:

There is a boulder which weighs 50 lb. If the boulder is lifted to 6 feet high and then dropped, we know by the physical laws that the boulder will fall at a specific velocity until it reaches the earth, dispelling all its kinetic energy in some specific measure of force on the earth.

Now, raise the same boulder over the same spot to the same height, and place an infant's head in the spot the boulder will hit. Physical laws dictate that the boulder will fall once again with the same energy, smashing the skull of the infant with the force. However, the laws of nature dictate that we ought (an english word based upon the concept of justice) not do this, since this is not in line with the purpose of the infant's head.

Animals and plants cannot appreciate the natural or physical law, since they do not have spiritualized souls to conceptualize these things.

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"Decay is merely corruption/death of a good, living member of a material being. It is not integral (i.e., contributing to the wholeness of a being); it was never meant by the Creator to happen.

It is not the laws of nature which lead to decay, but rather the physical laws of a fallen universe."

This is such an important issue that I've been pondering on it for days. Decay is a driving force in God's creation and have been so from the beginning as far as I can understand it. Even if one don't believe in the Big Bang, one have to realize that our sun exists as a result of nuclear fusion and decay is the driving force in this reaction. So even if one believe that Genesis is to be taken literally, the fusion process was created before man and the fall. Thus, how can it be the result of the laws of a fallen universe?

Apr 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-112790 said: Ana.. People do have the right to make their own decisions.-I only ask that you keep prayi...
(Quote) Tom-112790 said:

Ana..

People do have the right to make their own decisions.-I only ask that you keep praying about this issue--and that you allow the Holy Spirit to guide what you believe to be right or wrong.

I agree that it is not our place to tell people how to live their lives or to force our beliefs down their throats.

My main issue with the gay marriage is that the gay lobby forces their issues on a society that in general has never considered this marriage...and that for many of them it is not about 2 people who love eachother having a marriage certificate...-but its about forcing general society to teach that this is a normal accepted way of life--and to use the legal system to bully society into accepting a societal change. Soon teachers/school districts may be forced to revise textbooks for young children;forcing teachers to tell 5,6,7 year olds that this 'alternative' lifestyle is normal.

Again its not about about 2 people of the same sex who love eachother. Its an agenda.
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In reference to letting the Holy Spirit guide you. He already does through the Mystical Body of Christ. The Catholic Church. So if your personal discernment with The Holy Spirit contradicts Church defined teaching, then the Spirit that is advising you in in actuality is an Unholy spirit. As to the forcing down the throat reference, people retain the right to leave. As with any affiliation or club if you start voicing things against club rules they show you the door. The Church is not a takeaway restaurant where you select only what you like and dismiss the rest.It would be far better to gather all the information the Church makes available, and then comply with The Holy Spirit, given to the Church to guide it without error. If that is too hard why stay?? In regard to the unnatural desire for another of your own sex. It cannot ever achieve the state of licit conjugal love open to the creation of New Life in co-operation with God The Creator. 2000 years of Church Tradition, guided by the Holy Spirit, has said 'no' to the sexual union between same sex people. It is unnatural, that is no child can be conceived anywhere in a males body. Equally there is no way for two women to concieve a child. This can only be achieved between a male and a female. Homosexual behaviour rebels against the law of nature, in regards to which combination of the sexes is going to perpetuate the human species. It is as simple and as complex as that.

Apr 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: In reference to letting the Holy Spirit guide you. He already does through the Mystical Bo...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

In reference to letting the Holy Spirit guide you. He already does through the Mystical Body of Christ. The Catholic Church. So if your personal discernment with The Holy Spirit contradicts Church defined teaching, then the Spirit that is advising you in in actuality is an Unholy spirit. As to the forcing down the throat reference, people retain the right to leave. As with any affiliation or club if you start voicing things against club rules they show you the door. The Church is not a takeaway restaurant where you select only what you like and dismiss the rest.It would be far better to gather all the information the Church makes available, and then comply with The Holy Spirit, given to the Church to guide it without error. If that is too hard why stay?? In regard to the unnatural desire for another of your own sex. It cannot ever achieve the state of licit conjugal love open to the creation of New Life in co-operation with God The Creator. 2000 years of Church Tradition, guided by the Holy Spirit, has said 'no' to the sexual union between same sex people. It is unnatural, that is no child can be conceived anywhere in a males body. Equally there is no way for two women to concieve a child. This can only be achieved between a male and a female. Homosexual behaviour rebels against the law of nature, in regards to which combination of the sexes is going to perpetuate the human species. It is as simple and as complex as that.

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"In regard to the unnatural desire for another of your own sex."

"Homosexual behaviour rebels against the law of nature"

As homosexual acts are a part of nature how can they then be unnatural? And, pray tell me, which are the laws of nature you refer to as being violated? Are they listed somewhere?

By the way. Do you see how easy it is to read my text as I allow some space in it? Try it on one of your humongous chunks of text sometime. santahat

Apr 28th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: "In regard to the unnatural desire for another of your own sex." "...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

"In regard to the unnatural desire for another of your own sex."

"Homosexual behaviour rebels against the law of nature"

As homosexual acts are a part of nature how can they then be unnatural? And, pray tell me, which are the laws of nature you refer to as being violated? Are they listed somewhere?

By the way. Do you see how easy it is to read my text as I allow some space in it? Try it on one of your humongous chunks of text sometime.

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Perhaps he meant the Natural Law rather than the "laws of nature". The former would be an accurate assertion.

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