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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Mar 30th 2013 new
Gay marriage is going to be legalized...sorry to say.-The huge problem here is that it will go way beyond the 'memebers of the same sex who love eachother' thing. Once fully legalized--it will force its way into the public schools and have to be taught as something normal.It will be included in sex ed...--and as someone mentioned early in the thread---it will intrude on religious institutions and harm charities etc.
Mar 31st 2013 new

The Catholic church says that homosexual sex is a sin. That is succinct enough, but doubtful you will persuade your friends.

I prefer to debate the issue logically. Ask them if homosexual marriage is okay-ed then what next? Where do THEY draw the line? Are the going to accept polygamy? Are they going to accept incest? Where do they draw the line? Justice Sotomayor even asked that question and she isn't any where near conservative.

Lost in the past, Clinton nominated a homosexual group as a civil rights organization to the UN, which gleefully accepted it. Not long after the group's admittance they nominated NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association) a pedophile group, and the UN accepted them too. Where ever homosexuals go, pedophiles follow. It is as night and day.

Those pushing for homosexual marriage are nihilistic. They believe that everyone has a right to do anything they want. Dissolution is not freedome. No one is ever totally free. Who would want to be?

They place themselves above all reason. Society has rights too. Society has the right and the power to limit actions it deems harmful. We don't allow prostitution. We used to not allow gambling. We don't allow public drunkenness or drunk driving.

At the very center of civilization is the neuclear family. Civilization could not have suvived without it. Homosexual marriage violates the laws of nature and of nature's God. Ultimately it will destroy civilization and ruin our country. This is after, what they really want.

Mar 31st 2013 new
(Quote) Gary-936836 said: Actually, it's only when we talk about Greek as used by philosophers and theologians
(Quote) Gary-936836 said:



Actually, it's only when we talk about Greek as used by philosophers and theologians that that has any ring of truth to it. There is nothing about Greek that makes it magically precise. ἀγαπή (agape) is used to refer to sexuality, and even illicit sexuality in certain circumstances. φίλη (phile) is also used in such ways. The verb form φιλέω, for instance, is used of Asmodeus' sexual obsession with Sarah in Tobit. Agape is used in Canticles and also in Jeremiah 2:2 in reference to the love of a bride for her groom.



So, really, it's that people who wanted to specify arbitrarily restricted certain words, but in general use, this was not the case. Even in the Bible. Usually, in the NT, though, agape is referring to the special kind of love, but it's special because it's God's love, not because of the Greek word used.

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But what dialect of Greek do you refer to? The Greek used by scholars of classical Greek such as Attic or Doric doesn't always correspond with the meaning of the Koine dialect that the Bible is written in.

Think the meaning of "gay" in 1940 vs. today to see my point.

A lot of pro-homosexual apologists make the mistake of trying to apply definitions that were common in Athens of the 4th century and apply it to the Koine of the 1st century.

I did some private studies a few years back into the issue by examining John Boswell's theses and comparing them with the LSJ and Koine.

Even comparing the Greek of the Septuagint with that of the New Testament can be difficult because the latter was written 300 years later. Languages evolve.
Mar 31st 2013 new
I think their actions show that their real goal is to use the privileges afforded by marriage to enlist the police powers of the state to compel acceptance of their homosexuality.
Mar 31st 2013 new

To add a different, and for all of us a more important, view on acts of homosexuality we have to go to the Supernatural,God theCreator and the Preternatural, Created spirits realm around the period of the Rebellion against God. Many propose that the fact God had revealed His intent to create Man and Woman in His image. Not only that, but He also intended them to be actively involved in the creation of further human beings and without their co-operation no persons could or would be created. There had to be human, Male and Female consent and co-operation via the free will. After the fall of Man sin entered the equation and Satan went to work on this gift of co-operation in creation that God had given as gift to Humanity in their representation as Male and Female. No other combination will result in a new life created in the image of God. In the sexual act between same sexes Satan mocks God for entrusting this procreative act to Humanity and at the same time he degrades both the male and female and reduces them to animal perverted lust. We being a combination of Flesh and Spirit opens an avenue for Satan to corrupt a Sacramental action into a blasphemous perverted parody of God's creative gift to Man and Woman. This age we are in, is the era of Satans greatest activity and the abuse of a gift solely meant for procreation, and this includes abortion, is Satans way of throwing this gift back in God's face using the very species that God created to assist Him in furthering the numbers of persons to participate in Eternal bliss in union with the Most Blessed Trinity forever.

Mar 31st 2013 new

For those that deny the existence of God as Creator all things are allowable, even things personally repugnant. "If that's what makes them happy!" "Who am I to control their lives, after all it is love we are talking about." " People must be tolerant of difference and not impose their belief system on others!" and the chants go on. The "it's my body" brigade in the militant womens movment used to idolise Dr Bernard Nathanson. It was he and a select group of other doctors that came up with that catch phrase and let it loose, with a few others, within the womens movements. The other game plan they came up with was all references to the child in the womb were to be depersonalized. No references that would empower the status of a human life was ever to be used if they were to have profitable practices. Before Dr Nathanson died he spent considerable time exposing what he had done, in true remorse. One day he performed an abortion and at the end, when they account for all the pieces of the fetus, he was overwhelmed by the fact of this childs humanity and that was the day he walked out of the clinic and crossed to Pro Life. Prayer broke down a stoney heart that shared no belief in God and turned it to a contrite and loving response to God's gift of life. Our Rosaries are the most powerful weapon against evil and the one that heads it, Saten. I remember an old priest being hauled of to jail for sitting on the other side of the road of an abortion mill without any signs of protest. The mere fact he was praying the Rosary and not even facing the clinic, this enraged them. Satan reacting whilst indewelling these people in the death clinics. I have just remembered his name, the priest. Father Groeschel a finer man or priest of God would be difficult to find IMHO. I pride myself on my humility! laughing laughing laughing rosary rosary rosary rosary rosary rosary rosary :rosary: :rosary:

Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Gary-936836 said: I thought it was pretty comprehensive.
(Quote) Gary-936836 said:

I thought it was pretty comprehensive.

--hide--

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I probably should not have tried to cure flippancy with sarcasm, as my last confession was woefully on point.

In all seriousness, the argument comes down to a fundamental philosophical difference -- what is the purpose of sex (meaning gender, not the act)? To Catholics, sex is a fundamental aspect of the human. A person IS a man/woman who happens to have blonde hair and blue eyes. The opposing view is that sex is a trait of a human. A person is a human who happens to have blonde hair, blue eyes, and male/female sexual anatomy. So for Catholics, marriage is the union of these two different bodily forms. It is disordered and not marriage if you are trying to unite the wrong forms. (Ever try to assemble Legos or pipes male/male? It just doesn't work because the parts are MADE to fit together in a certain way.) I say to go ahead and give them substantive due process under the law, but that ALL legal unions should be classified as civil unions as our government should not be in the business of regulating sacraments. Although I guess you can call a civil union between same-sex persons "marriage" if you want, but it can never be. Sometimes I call my dog my baby, but I am not quite mentally-disturbed enough to think that I actually gave birth to him.

Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: But what dialect of Greek do you refer to? The Greek used by scholars of classical Greek such as ...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

But what dialect of Greek do you refer to? The Greek used by scholars of classical Greek such as Attic or Doric doesn't always correspond with the meaning of the Koine dialect that the Bible is written in.

Think the meaning of "gay" in 1940 vs. today to see my point.

A lot of pro-homosexual apologists make the mistake of trying to apply definitions that were common in Athens of the 4th century and apply it to the Koine of the 1st century.

I did some private studies a few years back into the issue by examining John Boswell's theses and comparing them with the LSJ and Koine.

Even comparing the Greek of the Septuagint with that of the New Testament can be difficult because the latter was written 300 years later. Languages evolve.
--hide--

This is getting a bit off-topic, friend. My specialty is NT Greek, but I'm familiar with the LXX as well. Languages DO evolve, yes, but they also have some basic rules to them. What people expect of languages, even their native one, is a different story altogether. One of which is that people often have the mistaken notion that if there are separate words for something, that they are all completely distinct. An example is "te amo" and "te quiero" in Spanish. Here is a video in which the singer says that he is getting-down-on-my-knees, laying-my-life-at-your-feet in love and says "te quiero" for "I love you". During an intermission, this native speaker explains to us that "te amo" is what you say for erotic love, and "te quiero" is what you'd say to a friend. *Despite the fact that the song blatantly contradicts this*. Even native speakers make arbitrary distinctions because people do not realize that words have semantic domains, which include some element of overlap between words which allows partial interchangeability.

www.youtube.com

As I said: there's nothing about agape as a word that makes it magically mean only the Christian sense of the term, although by NT times it was seldom used in everyday speech. The LXX still is worth consulting on the matter, though it was translated from 250 BC to 50 BC. I think you have your times mixed up there, friend. It isn't that big of a time gap, and even if it was, it's the religious text of a community, which means it has some level of friction against the change of time.

Have a blessed Easter, everyone.

Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: I think their actions show that their real goal is to use the privileges afforded by marriage to enlist t...
(Quote) John-220051 said: I think their actions show that their real goal is to use the privileges afforded by marriage to enlist the police powers of the state to compel acceptance of their homosexuality.
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AMEN! And again I say AMEN!

Through Obama Care they are forcing us to accept abortion.

Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Gary-936836 said: I don't think a rich, coherent view of sexuality can be reduced to 140 characters or less, unf...
(Quote) Gary-936836 said:

I don't think a rich, coherent view of sexuality can be reduced to 140 characters or less, unfortunately, and it seems we're up against slogans such as "love has no gender".

Until people learn critical thinking, which will happen on the 11th of Never, I think we just have to try our best to get people to listen for longer. Summarizing won't work on this since we're trying to explain to people who just have a wrong worldview so many steps before the question of sexuality itself.

But perhaps I'm just being pessimistic. Lord, have mercy.

--hide--



This is mostly true, sadly. People in our secular society,are very intractable in their views. They no longer have the ability to do any logical thinking. that puts them very susceptible to ideas with half-truths, and ultimately, to any wacky idea that comes along. G.K.Chesterton said "it's not that they believe nothing, it's that they'll believe anything." (emphasis mine). Chesterton is a good resource - he is known as The Apostle Of Common Sense.
There is a really good video series on him by this name by Dale Ahlquist.

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