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This room is for discussion for anyone who adheres to the Extraordinary form of the mass and any issues related to the practices of Eastern Rite Catholicism.

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Mar 31st 2013 new

I wonder since Dolan did this on t.v. on Easter at St. Patrick's Cathedral in front of thousands if the Pope can't do something to correct him? Who tells the pope these things? I mean I never heard of an address to the vatican and if there was one, I'm sure they would be FLOODED with letters. rolling eyes

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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: Thank you for stating that. It is the connection between Christ and His priesthood, whi...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

Thank you for stating that. It is the connection between Christ and His priesthood, which he instituted at the Last Supper, that we commemorate with the Washing of the Feet, and is likely the key reason that men, preferably seminarians, are to have their feet washed.

Unfortunately, either that key tradition, or the tradition itself, has now been jeopardized. Priests will either be pressured to wash the feet of women, or decide that the yearly fight isn't worth it and not do it at all (which is what my pastor does).

The problem is not whether the liturgical rubrics are something the Pope is bound to (the Vatican has made it quite clear he isn't), but how does he cast aside clear liturgical rubrics without implying that others who find it inconvenient can simply disregard them simply because Pope Francis did.

Either reform it to say woman are allowed to be selected, selected under clearly defined circumstances, or simply reiterate the rubric and define why it's there in the first place so that people who want to understand can (as we know, there are those that simply don't).

What is not good is to leave a crystal clear law on the books but show no intention of expecting anyone to follow it. That damages the effectiveness of law across the board.

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Yea, I don't think so. I think it was Jesus' way of showing his humility and servantude. He could have came down in kinghood, but came down as a servant. He was teaching his apostles. If you remember there is also the example of the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears.

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Mar 31st 2013 new
(Quote) Martha-945168 said: It is very sad that two weeks after, there are a lot of catholic people criticizing him .....let...
(Quote) Martha-945168 said:


It is very sad that two weeks after, there are a lot of catholic people criticizing him .....let's pray for him and for us. Lord make me an instrument of Your peace..........

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I agree with what you said about our Pope. Especially on Easter Sunday...

It echos what Mirjana Soldo of Medjugorje says all the time....that the priests do not need our judgement and criticism, but instead need our prayers and love.
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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: Hi William, Perhaps I could have better explained it as you did that ...... "...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

Hi William,


Perhaps I could have better explained it as you did that ...... "He (Jesus) may have been acting against what the Pharisees understood the law to be,....". That is perhaps more accurate.


Thanks.


Happy Easter!


Ed

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It's an important distinction, especially when you are making a comparison between the act of going against the rubrics of the Mass by washing women's feet (which Pope Francis did do) and the "breaking" of the sabbath law which Christ did not do.

In other words, there was no comparison between the two.


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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: William, I can think of no better and no more appropriate analogy than what I posted previ...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

William,


I can think of no better and no more appropriate analogy than what I posted previously. If you have a better one, then I would like to hear it.


Ed

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Ed,

Why use any analogy at all? Why use an inaccurate one simply because no other analogy is available?

The Pharisees simply didn't accept Christ, period. You correctly point out that they were looking for a "perceived" error by Christ (since He couldn't actually make an error).

This issue (the foot-washing) is not a perceived error at all; the guidelines in this area are crystal clear. Pope Francis acted against the Church's guidelines; the confusion this causes to all of those among the laity and clergy who are trying to adhere to those guidelines cannot be overstated.

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Mar 31st 2013 new

We have a Pope . hopefully back in the Direction of Vatican Two

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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Lynea-297530 said: Oh wow. Oh wow. I hope this isn't really happening. The only people who...
(Quote) Lynea-297530 said:


Oh wow. Oh wow. I hope this isn't really happening. The only people who agree with this type of scandal are either:


1.) Those who think there should be ordained women (or perhaps even ordained children ?).


2.) Those who do not understand what the liturgy represents.

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Are you accusing the Pope of scandal? By whose authority to do have the right to do that? Pope Francis has been placed in the "Chair of Peter", which by synecdoche signifies the episcopal office of the Pope as Bishop of Rome, an office considered to have been first held by Saint Peter.
Only God has the right to be his judge.

I have been reading your posts. Do you realize that no matter what you know or think you know, as a Woman in the Traditional church you wouldn't have been allowed to voice it? Doesn't that seem strange that BECAUSE of Vatican ll that you can say the things you are saying here?

I feel scandalized by you and others in this forum because of all the doubt you are casting about Pope Francis who is now the Head of Christ's Church on earth.

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Mar 31st 2013 new

Pope Francis
Pope Francis

"Pope Francis"

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Mar 31st 2013 new
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said: "Dolanism" the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural...
(Quote) Cheryl-409772 said:

"Dolanism" the subordination of the Catholic faith to the prevailing cultural...

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Actually Pope Leo XIII described this phenonenon of which Dolan is a part of as the heresy of Americanism that was already apparent in the 1890s.

www.papalencyclicals.net

This document condemned the following doctrines or tendencies:

undue insistence on interior initiative in the spiritual life, as leading to disobedience

attacks on religious vows, and disparagement of the value of religious orders in the modern world

minimizing Catholic doctrine

minimizing the importance of spiritual direction

en.wikipedia.org
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Mar 31st 2013 new

(Quote) Jim-13836 said: If Cardinal Dolan really said he was unwilling to deny Pro-choice politicians Holy Comm...
(Quote) Jim-13836 said:


If Cardinal Dolan really said he was unwilling to deny Pro-choice politicians Holy Communion for their pro-abortion efforts then how is that being charitable? My understanding is that they have excomminicated themselves. I thought excommunication was a warning that one was on the road to Hell if they didn't repent and amend their lives.

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It is, and that is the medicinal purpose of excommunication. It's a warning that one is morally unfit to recieve communion because they are not in communion with the Church and it's teachings.

That is why it was called "the charitable anathema" by Dietrich von Hilderbrand.

There is no charity in allowing someone in a grave state of sin to continue to commit the worse sin of sacrilege.

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