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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

Saint Peter's Square was created so that more people could be in the presence of the Pope and was named after Saint Peter, one of Jesus's apostles.
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Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Ex cathedra pronouncements are not as rare as some would have you think. Bl. Pope John ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Ex cathedra pronouncements are not as rare as some would have you think. Bl. Pope John Paul II did, in fact, have recourse to his infallible magisterium when he defined the bounds of the Church's authority in regard to the sacerdotal ordination of women in his encyclical Ordinatio Sacerdotalis. ("Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful.")

That said, I do not know of the Holy Father using this papal prerogative in regard to the Divine Mercy Sunday, nor any of the private revelations of St. Maria Faustina Kowalska. If someone believes that the Holy Father did use his singular privelege, he should post the solemn judgment for all to see.

The infallibility which Our Lord wished His Church to possess and exercise is very closely defined at the First Vatican Council:

"Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our Saviour, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, We teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his Supreme Apostolic Authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed His Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable. So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema."

So, if the Holy Father did not:

1) exercise his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
2) exercise this office in virtue of his Supreme Apostolic Authority,
3) define a doctrine concerning faith or morals,
4) bind said doctrine to be held by the whole Church,

then he did not have recourse to his papal prerogative of infallibility.

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It all comes down to whether or not you respect Pope John Paul's era of the papacy. It was not an scure peasant in some ar away hamlet. This Feast was decided upon at the highest level. It doesnt matter two shoes of a blowfly whether a person considers themselves a traditionalist or whatever self appointed label they care to attach to themselves. It is part of the Roman Missal and is not going away. This disdain for this devotion is only fueling division and giving bad example. Armchair popes don't run the Church. Obedience is what is required. It is Jesus' request for this Feast. Fight the Feast and you strike at Christ. The Pope is the one entrusted with keys of the kingdom. Ultimately the Pope an make decisions without consultation. This is not so for Bishops.

Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: It all comes down to whether or not you respect Pope John Paul's era of the papacy. It was not ...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

It all comes down to whether or not you respect Pope John Paul's era of the papacy. It was not an scure peasant in some ar away hamlet. This Feast was decided upon at the highest level. It doesnt matter two shoes of a blowfly whether a person considers themselves a traditionalist or whatever self appointed label they care to attach to themselves. It is part of the Roman Missal and is not going away. This disdain for this devotion is only fueling division and giving bad example. Armchair popes don't run the Church. Obedience is what is required. It is Jesus' request for this Feast. Fight the Feast and you strike at Christ. The Pope is the one entrusted with keys of the kingdom. Ultimately the Pope an make decisions without consultation. This is not so for Bishops.

--hide--


Hello, Con, it was not I who claimed that the feast was bound upon the universal Church by an ex cathedra pronouncement. It was you, sir. My point is that if it is, then fine, share with us the ex cathedra pronouncement. If it is not bound upon our assent of faith, then fine as well, it's bound upon our religious submission to the liturgical calendar in the Ordinary Form. If you hear Mass according to the Ordinary Form, I do not see how you can avoid Divine Mercy Sunday.

To my understanding, this is not so on the liturgical calendar for the Extraordinary Form, since Divine Mercy Sunday wasn't instituted until the year 2000.

Basically, what I know of the feast, is that similarly to the solemnity of Christ the King which was instituted in 1925 by Pope Pius XI, the Holy Father John Paul II instituted the feast of Divine Mercy on the Octave Sunday of Easter in 2000. This doesn't raise the private devotion of the novena or chaplet beyond private devotion, though. However, in order to encourage the faithful to celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday with the proper devotion, the Apostolic Penitentiary has attached a plenary indulgence to devotions in honor of Divine Mercy:

www.vatican.va


Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Hello, Con, it was not I who claimed that the feast was bound upon the universal Church...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



Hello, Con, it was not I who claimed that the feast was bound upon the universal Church by an ex cathedra pronouncement. It was you, sir. My point is that if it is, then fine, share with us the ex cathedra pronouncement. If it is not bound upon our assent of faith, then fine as well, it's bound upon our religious submission to the liturgical calendar in the Ordinary Form. If you hear Mass according to the Ordinary Form, I do not see how you can avoid Divine Mercy Sunday.

To my understanding, this is not so on the liturgical calendar for the Extraordinary Form, since Divine Mercy Sunday wasn't instituted until the year 2000.

Basically, what I know of the feast, is that similarly to the solemnity of Christ the King which was instituted in 1925 by Pope Pius XI, the Holy Father John Paul II instituted the feast of Divine Mercy on the Octave Sunday of Easter in 2000. This doesn't raise the private devotion of the novena or chaplet beyond private devotion, though. However, in order to encourage the faithful to celebrate Divine Mercy Sunday with the proper devotion, the Apostolic Penitentiary has attached a plenary indulgence to devotions in honor of Divine Mercy:

www.vatican.va


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Are you familiar ith the Deotion and it's promises?

Apr 4th 2013 new
Con--could you give a summary of what Divine Mercy Sunday is?? And what participation in it really is??--I went to church to pray a few times this week after work and did some of the rosary with 2 different groups who I am assuming were doing the novena.
Apr 4th 2013 new

I usually don't pray this as I understand its traditional to pray it at 1500hrs and I'm kinda pedantic about praying things at certain times that are suggested. I'm usually asleep or at work at 1500hrs! So I found I couldn't keep up with it. I tend to pray the standard 54 Novena and just pray that at whatever time I find agreeable.

As for ignorance vs. opposition, I find generally that people are neither and just can't bothered simply because of how society now views sin and its consquences. I know too many Catholics who think Hell isn't forever, Hell is just for the "Hitlers", that there's no sin that can seperate us from God, [which is true, but they view this in a sense where you dont' need confession just say "Oh gee God, sorry about that, you understand right?", oir don't even do that] you know, the usual Protestant nonsense of once saved always saved under some wishy washy cafeteria catholic flavour.

So if people don't view sin as having any real consquence, why bother praying something that's supposed to remove the punishment of sin?

Our Clergy really have their work cut out for them. I know its not popular, but we need to start talking about the H word again.

Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: It puzzles me when people disregard this gift. I have found priests to be quite resistant as well. ...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

It puzzles me when people disregard this gift. I have found priests to be quite resistant as well. Disobedience seems to be the in thing.

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It's a private devotion.A good one at that,but no one is obliged to it.Just like apparitions.Some people think Fatima is good,and it gets resistance.I wouldn't worry about who is for or against,or indifferent.There are thousands of different devotions in the Church.

Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-112790 said: Con--could you give a summary of what Divine Mercy Sunday is?? And what participation in it really is??--I...
(Quote) Tom-112790 said: Con--could you give a summary of what Divine Mercy Sunday is?? And what participation in it really is??--I went to church to pray a few times this week after work and did some of the rosary with 2 different groups who I am assuming were doing the novena.
--hide--

Hi Tom, follow this web link and you will find all you need God bless. thedivinemercy.org

Apr 4th 2013 new
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said: I usually don't pray this as I understand its traditional to pray it at 1500hrs and I'm kinda pedantic ...
(Quote) Naomi-698107 said:

I usually don't pray this as I understand its traditional to pray it at 1500hrs and I'm kinda pedantic about praying things at certain times that are suggested. I'm usually asleep or at work at 1500hrs! So I found I couldn't keep up with it. I tend to pray the standard 54 Novena and just pray that at whatever time I find agreeable.



As for ignorance vs. opposition, I find generally that people are neither and just can't bothered simply because of how society now views sin and its consquences. I know too many Catholics who think Hell isn't forever, Hell is just for the "Hitlers", that there's no sin that can seperate us from God, [which is true, but they view this in a sense where you dont' need confession just say "Oh gee God, sorry about that, you understand right?", oir don't even do that] you know, the usual Protestant nonsense of once saved always saved under some wishy washy cafeteria catholic flavour.



So if people don't view sin as having any real consquence, why bother praying something that's supposed to remove the punishment of sin?



Our Clergy really have their work cut out for them. I know its not popular, but we need to start talking about the H word again.

--hide--


there is a hell...but im not sure that there is full agreement on the eternity of it. i'm more of a purgatory guy. i am guessing that the majority of all humans end up in purgatory after

death....with a very small percentage either going straight to heaven or hell. but what do i know??

from what ive read of purgatory....its much better to resolve most issues here on earth to say the least
Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: It's a private devotion.A good one at that,but no one is obliged to it.Just like apparitions....
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

It's a private devotion.A good one at that,but no one is obliged to it.Just like apparitions.Some people think Fatima is good,and it gets resistance.I wouldn't worry about who is for or against,or indifferent.There are thousands of different devotions in the Church.

--hide--
Notwith these promises attached and certainly not from the hand of a Pope. The fact of the Second Sunday of Easter being renamed is a powerful indicator of the regard Pop John Paul had for this special Feast. People seem to be confused the Divine Mercy Chaplet has nothing to do with the Feast. So why the reference to Fatima. This comes down to rejection of a request by Christ for the Feast and a belittling of John Pauls papacy. The Holy Spirit was involved in his appointment. God is being generous and people are rejecting something they haven't fully investigated. Christ did the right thing by acting through His representative at that time John Paul, the then Head of the Catholic Church.

Apr 4th 2013 new

(Quote) Tom-112790 said: there is a hell...but im not sure that there is full agreement on the eternity of it. i'm more...
(Quote) Tom-112790 said:

there is a hell...but im not sure that there is full agreement on the eternity of it. i'm more of a purgatory guy. i am guessing that the majority of all humans end up in purgatory after

death....with a very small percentage either going straight to heaven or hell. but what do i know??

from what ive read of purgatory....its much better to resolve most issues here on earth to say the least
--hide--

That is what Jesus is offering, no punishment out of the goodness of His lacerated Heart.

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