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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

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Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: I think Divine Mercy Sunday is incredible.I never said I was against it. BTW, I like your ...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

I think Divine Mercy Sunday is incredible.I never said I was against it.

BTW, I like your violin and your beautiful guitars!

--hide--
That's wonderful, I could not see the point of comparing other devotions when I was referringto the Sunday celebration and all on offer. I live on the lawn and my guitars and other instruments live inside!

Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: Thank you for bringing up this topic. I don't think it is a matter of for or against. ...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:



Thank you for bringing up this topic. I don't think it is a matter of for or against. I am sorry you have had roadblocks about this devotion through the years. Like you said that just shows how powerful it is. As you know, it was really hidden in the church for years. I was blessed over 20 years ago to discover it and we used to have a Divine Mercy Conference each year. When the pope established Divine Mercy Sunday he wanted it to move to the parishes. Try to remember that even though you have known about it for years it wasn't a Feast Day and Faustina wasn't a saint until 2000, which makes it a very young feast day in the church. I am thrilled that each year we have more and more participants at our Divine Mercy celebration. After mass we say the chaplet, have adoration, a homily and then veneration of a 1st degree relic of St. Faustina. It has taken the devotion of certain parishioners to patiently continue to put out the word. I am noticing in other parishes it is spreading:) Many have the Divine Mercy picture hanging in the church. After Good Friday services, it was still in the 3 o'clock hour, our pastor stayed in the church and lead the first day of the novena and chaplet and gave a little homily on the devotion. That was a first for him:)!!! I felt so blessed that I was there.

It seems many people in the church don't really understand Plenary Indulgences either and don't understand how to partake in this gift. Continue spreading the word and having faith and praying for our priests. Many times it is the laity that need to take a lead in these devotions, the priests have their hands full of so many things.

--hide--



As Bernard said just before Laura's comment here, we have the Sacred Heart devotion from Christ Himself as well as the 5 first Saturdays from Fatima (which is an approved apparition.) That said, the Divine Mercy devotion is also an approved devotion; also from Christ Himself. He said to St. Faustina Kowalska (canonised by Pope John Paul II) that praying it and asking for His Mercy would be our last hope for salvation... We have to remember Christ also told his apostles that He would come again soon; they thought this would be in their own lifetimes; but who knows? It may be in ours. (remember the severe predictions at Fatima? and that was almost 100 years ago now...) We aren't to fear; there is nothing to fear if we follow His Way and pray for ourselves and everyone else, spreading this devotion. We'd be fools though not to take it seriously. He has said to St. Faustina (as noted in the book on the devotion): "before I come as the just one, I first open wide the gates of My Mercy. He who does not pass through the gates of my Mercy must pass through the gates of justice."

I agree that it is extremely unfortunate that anyone claiming to be Catholic could be against this devotion - and when I say this I am not referring to those lay people unaware of it being skeptical if they haven't heard of it from their priests, who they turn to for instruction and guidance - but if priests/bishops have been against this. I have a hard time imagining that even being possible (?!) It would be a sign to me they are of the devil and I would refuse to attend anything they would be at. As to the responsibility to spread the devotion being solely on the backs of the laity as the priests are too busy - here is the problem. While we should spread this as much as we can - not everyone will listen to us. If this is for real and as powerful and important as it is - why aren't the priests saying anything about it other than on Divine Mercy Sunday? People will likely feel they are only being wise to be skeptical - can't believe every visionary - and so I believe what we need to be doing is writing our Bishops to have them order thier priests to speak on this from the pulpit and to have regular devotions in each and every parish throughout the year. It needs to come from them. If our priests are too busy and there aren't enough of them the Bishop can make more deacons. I know the priests union doesn't want this as they are fighting for the right to marry; but they can't fulfill all of their duties to us as it is and so many are falling away - we need deacons so the priests can focus solely on spiritual matters and the deacons can focus on the rest.

Now as to the Divine Mercy feast day being right after Easter Sunday as a statement Pope John Paul II made under his own authority. This isn't completely accurate. Pope John Paul II chose this day, and had the authority to state this, but the choice of this day wasn't his. After (then) Sr. Faustina Kowalska had told him that Jesus Himself had requested that this was the day He wanted to have the feast of His Divine Mercy be. From the Handbook of Devotion to the Divine Mercy (which quotes from St. Faustina's diaries.): In bold are the words Christ spoke to St. Faustina:

'This novena can be made at any time, but Our Lord especially wished that it be made beginning Good Friday in preparation for the Feast of His Mercy, which should be celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter.

"My daughter, speak to the world of My inexhaustible Mercy. I desire that this feast be a refuge and a shelter for all souls, especially for poor sinners. The very depths of My Mercy will be opened on that day. I will pour out a sea of graces upon those souls that will approach the fount of My Mercy on this day."

'The souls that will go to confession in preparation, and Communion on the day will obtain a complete remission of all sin and all punishment. Our Lord does not explicitly say we must get Confession on the feast itself.'

"Let no soul fear to come to Me, even if its sins be as scarlet. This feast emerged from the bosom of My Mercy and is founded in the depths of My Mercies. I desire that it be celebrated with great solemnity on the first Sunday after Easter."

'The Feast of Mercy is to be celebrated on the First Sunday after Easter. The selection of this Sunday, as well as the distinct desire of Jesus that priests preach sermons on this day about Divine Mercy, especially that mercy which God bestows upon us through Christ, all serve to indicate that Jesus sees a strict connection between the paschal mystery of our redemption and this feast: it is designed for the purpose that we contemplate on that day the mystery of Redemption as the greatest revelation of Divine Mercy towards us. St. Faustina also took note of the connection between the Feast of mercy and the mystery of the Redemption when in 1935 she wrote: "I see now that the work of Redemption is bound up with the work of Mercy that the Lord desires." '

Pope John Paul II was indeed destined to be the pope to make this devotion known and to proclaim this feast as Christ desired. St. Faustina Kowalska lived between 1905-1938 (33 yrs...) She wrote in her diary in 1935, "The time will come when this work, which God so commends, will be as though in complete ruin, and suddenly the action of God will come upon the scene with real power which will bear witness to the truth. It will be as a new splendour for the church, though it had for some time been dormant in it." 'On the 6th of March 1959, the Holy See, acting on information that was inaccurately presented, prohibited the spreading of images and writings advocating devotion to the Divine Mercy in the form proposed by Sr. Faustina. As a result, there followed almost twenty years of suppression of the message. On the 15th April 1978, the Holy See, after a thorough examination of original documents previously unavailable to it, completely reversed its decision and permitted the spread of this devotion. The man primarily responsible for reversal of this decision was Karol Wojtyla, the Archbishop of St. Faustina's home diocese of Krakow. On Oct. 16, 1978, he was elevated to the See of St. Peter as Pope John Paul II.' (and we know who picked him.)

And as we all know, our Pope JP II suffered immensely before God, in His Divine Mercy, finally called him home. He was released April 2, 2005, on what was that year Divine Mercy Sunday (though on a Saturday - it was officially Sunday, i.e. anticipated Masses could then be said.) So God not only confirmed the Feast of Divine Mercy but approval for anticipated Sunday Masses in taking him when He did. He especially showed His great love for His faithful servant, taking him on that feast, at the moment it was official and no later. Praise God!

Theresa














Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Theresa-110510 said: As Bernard said just before Laura's comment here, we have the Sacred Heart devo...
(Quote) Theresa-110510 said:




As Bernard said just before Laura's comment here, we have the Sacred Heart devotion from Christ Himself as well as the 5 first Saturdays from Fatima (which is an approved apparition.) That said, the Divine Mercy devotion is also an approved devotion; also from Christ Himself. He said to St. Faustina Kowalska (canonised by Pope John Paul II) that praying it and asking for His Mercy would be our last hope for salvation... We have to remember Christ also told his apostles that He would come again soon; they thought this would be in their own lifetimes; but who knows? It may be in ours. (remember the severe predictions at Fatima? and that was almost 100 years ago now...) We aren't to fear; there is nothing to fear if we follow His Way and pray for ourselves and everyone else, spreading this devotion. We'd be fools though not to take it seriously. He has said to St. Faustina (as noted in the book on the devotion): "before I come as the just one, I first open wide the gates of My Mercy. He who does not pass through the gates of my Mercy must pass through the gates of justice."

I agree that it is extremely unfortunate that anyone claiming to be Catholic could be against this devotion - and when I say this I am not referring to those lay people unaware of it being skeptical if they haven't heard of it from their priests, who they turn to for instruction and guidance - but if priests/bishops have been against this. I have a hard time imagining that even being possible (?!) It would be a sign to me they are of the devil and I would refuse to attend anything they would be at. As to the responsibility to spread the devotion being solely on the backs of the laity as the priests are too busy - here is the problem. While we should spread this as much as we can - not everyone will listen to us. If this is for real and as powerful and important as it is - why aren't the priests saying anything about it other than on Divine Mercy Sunday? People will likely feel they are only being wise to be skeptical - can't believe every visionary - and so I believe what we need to be doing is writing our Bishops to have them order thier priests to speak on this from the pulpit and to have regular devotions in each and every parish throughout the year. It needs to come from them. If our priests are too busy and there aren't enough of them the Bishop can make more deacons. I know the priests union doesn't want this as they are fighting for the right to marry; but they can't fulfill all of their duties to us as it is and so many are falling away - we need deacons so the priests can focus solely on spiritual matters and the deacons can focus on the rest.

Now as to the Divine Mercy feast day being right after Easter Sunday as a statement Pope John Paul II made under his own authority. This isn't completely accurate. Pope John Paul II chose this day, and had the authority to state this, but the choice of this day wasn't his. After (then) Sr. Faustina Kowalska had told him that Jesus Himself had requested that this was the day He wanted to have the feast of His Divine Mercy be. From the Handbook of Devotion to the Divine Mercy (which quotes from St. Faustina's diaries.): In bold are the words Christ spoke to St. Faustina:

'This novena can be made at any time, but Our Lord especially wished that it be made beginning Good Friday in preparation for the Feast of His Mercy, which should be celebrated on the first Sunday after Easter.

"My daughter, speak to the world of My inexhaustible Mercy. I desire that this feast be a refuge and a shelter for all souls, especially for poor sinners. The very depths of My Mercy will be opened on that day. I will pour out a sea of graces upon those souls that will approach the fount of My Mercy on this day."

'The souls that will go to confession in preparation, and Communion on the day will obtain a complete remission of all sin and all punishment. Our Lord does not explicitly say we must get Confession on the feast itself.'

"Let no soul fear to come to Me, even if its sins be as scarlet. This feast emerged from the bosom of My Mercy and is founded in the depths of My Mercies. I desire that it be celebrated with great solemnity on the first Sunday after Easter."

'The Feast of Mercy is to be celebrated on the First Sunday after Easter. The selection of this Sunday, as well as the distinct desire of Jesus that priests preach sermons on this day about Divine Mercy, especially that mercy which God bestows upon us through Christ, all serve to indicate that Jesus sees a strict connection between the paschal mystery of our redemption and this feast: it is designed for the purpose that we contemplate on that day the mystery of Redemption as the greatest revelation of Divine Mercy towards us. St. Faustina also took note of the connection between the Feast of mercy and the mystery of the Redemption when in 1935 she wrote: "I see now that the work of Redemption is bound up with the work of Mercy that the Lord desires." '

Pope John Paul II was indeed destined to be the pope to make this devotion known and to proclaim this feast as Christ desired. St. Faustina Kowalska lived between 1905-1938 (33 yrs...) She wrote in her diary in 1935, "The time will come when this work, which God so commends, will be as though in complete ruin, and suddenly the action of God will come upon the scene with real power which will bear witness to the truth. It will be as a new splendour for the church, though it had for some time been dormant in it." 'On the 6th of March 1959, the Holy See, acting on information that was inaccurately presented, prohibited the spreading of images and writings advocating devotion to the Divine Mercy in the form proposed by Sr. Faustina. As a result, there followed almost twenty years of suppression of the message. On the 15th April 1978, the Holy See, after a thorough examination of original documents previously unavailable to it, completely reversed its decision and permitted the spread of this devotion. The man primarily responsible for reversal of this decision was Karol Wojtyla, the Archbishop of St. Faustina's home diocese of Krakow. On Oct. 16, 1978, he was elevated to the See of St. Peter as Pope John Paul II.' (and we know who picked him.)

And as we all know, our Pope JP II suffered immensely before God, in His Divine Mercy, finally called him home. He was released April 2, 2005, on what was that year Divine Mercy Sunday (though on a Saturday - it was officially Sunday, i.e. anticipated Masses could then be said.) So God not only confirmed the Feast of Divine Mercy but approval for anticipated Sunday Masses in taking him when He did. He especially showed His great love for His faithful servant, taking him on that feast, at the moment it was official and no later. Praise God!

Theresa














--hide--
Well put. Sums it up perfectly. John Pauls death resembled the death of one whom had died from asphixiation. I have battled resistance from priests for 29 years in relation to the Devotion and in relation to the Divine Mercy Sunday. It is not just indifferance I have encountered but active obstructionism by laity and priests. Australia is a battle ground that just doesn'tlet up. Now we are going to go through a Government enquiry about child abuse. They are starting with the Catholic Church naturally and it has nothing to do with an election in Sept and the Tooth Fairy rides a Harley!

Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Pauline-931463 said: These were the words of Jesus to St Faustina. My husband took these words to he...
(Quote) Pauline-931463 said:

These were the words of Jesus to St Faustina.

My husband took these words to heart and he was devoted to the Divine Mercy. We have the image venerated in our home and we prayed the divine mercy chaplet.

This devotion gave my husband much peace in his last days. I truly believe that this promise

"I promise that the soul that will venerate this image will not perish. I also promise victory over [its] enemies already here on earth, especially at the hour of death"

was fulfilled in my husband in his last few days on this earth and when he died. His dying was such a beautiful witness to his devotion to the Divine Mercy, and brought many to the Lord. Even the palliative care nurses could not understand and commented on the peace they felt in his presence. One day when he was smiling, staring at the ceiling, a friend asked him what he was staring at, and he replied," I am looking at the face of my Lord."

At his funeral, when the coffin was being lowered into the ground, suddenly a white bird came right above the grave, encircled the area three times and then went straight up into the sky and vanished just as it had come. Everyone saw this and were amazed.

I truly believe it was his devotion to the Divine Mercy.

Although I with my kids went for confession in Lent, we are going again tommorrow and will receive communion on Sunday. We are saying the chaplet every night.

I AM ALL FOR IT.


--hide--


Pauline, thank you for sharing this beautiful witness of God's Mercy!

Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Huh?
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Huh?

--hide--

Bernard, he's just trolling (in the internet sense of the word). Look at his posting patten; long rambling posts, frequent provocative comments, factual errors, personal attacks when questioned, non sequitor after non sequitor.

Notice his response to your post here. Does he try to do a better job explaining? No. Just an ad hominem attack on you.

Apr 5th 2013 new
(Quote) Theresa-110510 said: Hi Frank,However, one of our Blessed Mother's promises to those who recite the Rosary is ...
(Quote) Theresa-110510 said:



Hi Frank,

However, one of our Blessed Mother's promises to those who recite the Rosary is to not die without receiving the Sacraments of the Church. That's a good base to cover! You are so right though, God's Mercy is so far reaching, we'd be the ultimate morons to not avail ourselves of it and to tell everyone we can.

Theresa

--hide--


Yes Theresa, that goes without saying hence being in the state of grace.

Thanks.
Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Bernard, he's just trolling (in the internet sense of the word). Look at his posting ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Bernard, he's just trolling (in the internet sense of the word). Look at his posting patten; long rambling posts, frequent provocative comments, factual errors, personal attacks when questioned, non sequitor after non sequitor.

Notice his response to your post here. Does he try to do a better job explaining? No. Just an ad hominem attack on you.

--hide--
Dart in Dart out. Drop an irrelevant line fe smug, avoid the issue and avoid addressin the fact of a Solmnity promulgated that no one has the authority to side step. You may want to wipe your shoes on the way out. Bernard anf I resolved te matter and as usual you turn up after the battle. It is over don't bother.

Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) John-336509 said: Bernard, he's just trolling (in the internet sense of the word). Look at his posting ...
(Quote) John-336509 said:

Bernard, he's just trolling (in the internet sense of the word). Look at his posting patten; long rambling posts, frequent provocative comments, factual errors, personal attacks when questioned, non sequitor after non sequitor.

Notice his response to your post here. Does he try to do a better job explaining? No. Just an ad hominem attack on you.

--hide--
Actually I wasn't trolling John. smile

Apr 5th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Actually I wasn't trolling John.
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Actually I wasn't trolling John.

--hide--

I know; I was talking to you, not about you.

We have our disagreements, but I don't think I've ever seen you trolling.

Apr 5th 2013 new
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