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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Unity between Orthodox and Catholics, and certain groups of Anglicans and Catholic-minded Lutherans, is m...
(Quote) John-220051 said: Unity between Orthodox and Catholics, and certain groups of Anglicans and Catholic-minded Lutherans, is more likely than unity with the disparate groups of Protestants who can't even agree among themselves on the fundamentals of faith.
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Af


After reading most of the comments on here I have to say that I am really disappointed with this thread. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but some of you seem just as closed off as the "fundamentalists" whom you criticize.


With respect to "Anglicans" I would disagree that Catholics who do know their faith and hold to all of the tenets of the Church have little in common with Anglicans as a whole. For one their theology is radically different than ours. Yes there are some outward gestures in their service that are similar, but the Anglican Church is radically liberal now as is much of Lutheranism.


Traditional and conservative Catholics have far more in common with Evangelical Christians than we have with modernist Catholics and they have more in common with us then they do with liberal Protestants.


Finally the priest does NOT interpret everything for us and the Church doesn't even teach that. Yes the Church is the final word but we as Catholics are just as capable of reading scripture and drawing our own conclusions with respect to much of the Bible.


One example would be the creation story. Some Catholics take it just as literal as any fundamentalist and some believe it's very symbolic. The Church does not dogmatically define the creation story or the book of Revelation. Again some Catholics are just as apocalyptic as any dyed in the wool Dispensationlist and others are preterists.





Apr 23rd 2013 new
The Protestant work ethic is a good thing.

The Baptists have the really good gospel music.

As a 5-year-old, I was allowed to attend a local Protestant bible school during the summer with neighbors. It was a lot of fun! I loved the singing in large groups in the auditorium, the coloring of bible story pages, and the bible stories told to us by the instructor.

Unfortunately, I skinned my knee playing red-rover with the older children, so my family did not allow me to go back, but I do recall that I had fun there and liked all of being there. The Protestant children there were a lot more outspoken than the Catholic kids that I knew. Boy have we changed though!
Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Ray-566531 said: I'm going to advocate your approach, John. We, as Christians, have much in common. Pope JPII em...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

I'm going to advocate your approach, John. We, as Christians, have much in common. Pope JPII emphasized this during his papacy. An ecumenical spirit developed after Vatican II. If we emphasize what we have in common, much can be accomplished, as opposed to spending a lot of time bashing each other. If we respect our common ground and unite in that fashion, there is much evil that can be fought. United faith groups have accomplished a great deal in the areas of charity and social justice, whereas, standing alone, they wouldn't have made as much progress.

FB isn't a great place to have a meaningful debate in the first place. There are limits of space that can restrict people to tossing out sound bytes. We can agree to disagree on the doctrinal issues on FB, but a good meaningful dialogue just isn't going to take place there and it's difficult to win people over with just bits and pieces.

And what person likes to be told he/she is wrong -- especially in a public forum? If our purpose is to help unite, there are better ways. FB debates/arguments lend themselves to hostility -- counterproductive to the goal. The "in your face' approach just isn't leading to the results being sought.

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I agree with you Ray. I am finding that Catholics can be just as bigoted as the worst anti catholic fundamentalist. Very sad.

Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: The Protestant work ethic is a good thing. The Baptists have the really good gospel music. ...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: The Protestant work ethic is a good thing.

The Baptists have the really good gospel music.

As a 5-year-old, I was allowed to attend a local Protestant bible school during the summer with neighbors. It was a lot of fun! I loved the singing in large groups in the auditorium, the coloring of bible story pages, and the bible stories told to us by the instructor.

Unfortunately, I skinned my knee playing red-rover with the older children, so my family did not allow me to go back, but I do recall that I had fun there and liked all of being there. The Protestant children there were a lot more outspoken than the Catholic kids that I knew. Boy have we changed though!
--hide--


Sorry to hear that you skinned your knee :(



Apr 23rd 2013 new
(Quote) Keith-965841 said: Af After reading most of the comments on here I have to say that I am really disappointed wi...
(Quote) Keith-965841 said:

Af




After reading most of the comments on here I have to say that I am really disappointed with this thread. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but some of you seem just as closed off as the "fundamentalists" whom you criticize.




With respect to "Anglicans" I would disagree that Catholics who do know their faith and hold to all of the tenets of the Church have little in common with Anglicans as a whole. For one their theology is radically different than ours. Yes there are some outward gestures in their service that are similar, but the Anglican Church is radically liberal now as is much of Lutheranism.




Traditional and conservative Catholics have far more in common with Evangelical Christians than we have with modernist Catholics and they have more in common with us then they do with liberal Protestants.




Finally the priest does NOT interpret everything for us and the Church doesn't even teach that. Yes the Church is the final word but we as Catholics are just as capable of reading scripture and drawing our own conclusions with respect to much of the Bible.




One example would be the creation story. Some Catholics take it just as literal as any fundamentalist and some believe it's very symbolic. The Church does not dogmatically define the creation story or the book of Revelation. Again some Catholics are just as apocalyptic as any dyed in the wool Dispensationlist and others are preterists.









--hide--


We, lay Catholics, are never welcome to our own interpretation of the bible. The correct interpretations are always given from parish Priest, Bishop, and so on...to the Pope..back to Jesus. We are of course welcomed to read the Bible if we wish.

Protestants and other faiths sometimes approach us with questioning our position regarding particular interrpretations, but really, there is no choice other than the interpretations that come from our clerics, not our own choices. The interpretations are usually not literal. So we, lay Catholics, do not make decisions about interpretations. We only agree to follow the Word of Jesus, as given to us by his leaders.
Apr 23rd 2013 new
You might say that we agree to obey the Word of God.

It is not that we cannot think for ourselves, or that we do not have our own opinions;we do. But, these are considered "human thinking," and are no comparison to the will of God.

No doubt, the will of God is most often the more difficult route.
Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Keith-965841 said: Af After reading most of the comments on here I have to say that I am really disappoin...
(Quote) Keith-965841 said:

Af


After reading most of the comments on here I have to say that I am really disappointed with this thread. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but some of you seem just as closed off as the "fundamentalists" whom you criticize.


With respect to "Anglicans" I would disagree that Catholics who do know their faith and hold to all of the tenets of the Church have little in common with Anglicans as a whole. For one their theology is radically different than ours. Yes there are some outward gestures in their service that are similar, but the Anglican Church is radically liberal now as is much of Lutheranism.


Traditional and conservative Catholics have far more in common with Evangelical Christians than we have with modernist Catholics and they have more in common with us then they do with liberal Protestants.


Finally the priest does NOT interpret everything for us and the Church doesn't even teach that. Yes the Church is the final word but we as Catholics are just as capable of reading scripture and drawing our own conclusions with respect to much of the Bible.


One example would be the creation story. Some Catholics take it just as literal as any fundamentalist and some believe it's very symbolic. The Church does not dogmatically define the creation story or the book of Revelation. Again some Catholics are just as apocalyptic as any dyed in the wool Dispensationlist and others are preterists.

--hide--

One problem with your comments about Anglicans. You paint them with too broad a brush. Not all Anglicans are radically liberal and many still hold theology close to ours. The same is true of Lutherans.

In fact, among the so called "major" Protestant churches (which really are no longer major as they have lost far more adherents,, even nominal ones then we have. For example, there are only 200,000 active Anglicans/Episcopalians left in the US.) most progress thowards reunification has been made with the Anglican and Lutherans Churches. But we are still very far apart.

Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: We, lay Catholics, are never welcome to our own interpretation of the bible. The correct in...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

We, lay Catholics, are never welcome to our own interpretation of the bible. The correct interpretations are always given from parish Priest, Bishop, and so on...to the Pope..back to Jesus. We are of course welcomed to read the Bible if we wish.

Protestants and other faiths sometimes approach us with questioning our position regarding particular interrpretations, but really, there is no choice other than the interpretations that come from our clerics, not our own choices. The interpretations are usually not literal. So we, lay Catholics, do not make decisions about interpretations. We only agree to follow the Word of Jesus, as given to us by his leaders.
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I am so glad we have a Teaching Authority to guide both Lay and Clergy when it comes to scripture interpretation.


Here is what the Catechism states on interpreting Scriptures

The Second Vatican Council indicates three criteria for interpreting Scripture in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it.78

112 1. Be especially attentive "to the content and unity of the whole Scripture". Different as the books which compose it may be, Scripture is a unity by reason of the unity of God's plan, of which Christ Jesus is the center and heart, open since his Passover.79

The phrase "heart of Christ" can refer to Sacred Scripture, which makes known his heart, closed before the Passion, as the Scripture was obscure. But the Scripture has been opened since the Passion; since those who from then on have understood it, consider and discern in what way the prophecies must be interpreted.80

113 2. Read the Scripture within "the living Tradition of the whole Church". According to a saying of the Fathers, Sacred Scripture is written principally in the Church's heart rather than in documents and records, for the Church carries in her Tradition the living memorial of God's Word, and it is the Holy Spirit who gives her the spiritual interpretation of the Scripture (". . . according to the spiritual meaning which the Spirit grants to the Church"81).

114 3. Be attentive to the analogy of faith.82 By "analogy of faith" we mean the coherence of the truths of faith among themselves and within the whole plan of Revelation.

What I like about this is, it teaches us that Scriptures are meant to be read as a whole. So now when I read Scriptures, I keep those three in mind it has helped me a lot - but I also again, am glad that I have a Magesterium to fall back to, to make sure that I'm in line with Her teachings.


I observe amongst my non-Catholic friends that the issue with interpretations do come up a lot. Which interpretation is right etc? I'd like to think I read Scriptures with a Catholic Lens, because we have a Magistereum that is guided by the Holy Spirit.

Apr 23rd 2013 new

(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said: We, lay Catholics, are never welcome to our own interpretation of the bible. The correct in...
(Quote) Jacqueline-556574 said:

We, lay Catholics, are never welcome to our own interpretation of the bible. The correct interpretations are always given from parish Priest, Bishop, and so on...to the Pope..back to Jesus. We are of course welcomed to read the Bible if we wish.

Protestants and other faiths sometimes approach us with questioning our position regarding particular interrpretations, but really, there is no choice other than the interpretations that come from our clerics, not our own choices. The interpretations are usually not literal. So we, lay Catholics, do not make decisions about interpretations. We only agree to follow the Word of Jesus, as given to us by his leaders.
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Simply not true and the Church doesn't even teach that. But I'm sure glad that Catholics are arguing as much as Protestants. Wow really great discussion. I'm out of here. Argue among yourselves. If I wanted to do that, I would have stayed a Protestant.

Apr 23rd 2013 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: One problem with your comments about Anglicans. You paint them with too broad a brush. Not all ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:



One problem with your comments about Anglicans. You paint them with too broad a brush. Not all Anglicans are radically liberal and many still hold theology close to ours. The same is true of Lutherans.



In fact, among the so called "major" Protestant churches (which really are no longer major as they have lost far more adherents,, even nominal ones then we have. For example, there are only 200,000 active Anglicans/Episcopalians left in the US.) most progress thowards reunification has been made with the Anglican and Lutherans Churches. But we are still very far apart.

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That there are still Anglicans whose theology is still close to ours is why I would prefer for the Church to expend its resources in ecumenical dialogue with them and the Orthodox, and to those who are similar to these churches (Assyrian Church of the East, Old Catholics, etc.).
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