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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged for "Love God" and "love others" if your love to God is not pure, you are not going to be able to love others and you will exclude the love to people in the name of God... So, if RELIGION, not God, is making you se protestants as "them" and not "us", you should seriously start thinking how do you profess love to God...
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No Lilia that is not correct you will also be judged on obedience to the Church that Jesus went to the trouble of establishing via His death and Ressurection. Now this them and us misinterpretation. It is technicaly true the differentiation of them and us. It is like looking at two families. You can look at each other and without any rudeness or insult or agression refer to each other as them as one family and us as the other family. Protestants aren't offended as being viewed as separate in their own denomination. They rightfully view us as outside of their way of doing things. It doesn't stop us talking to each other. But if the Catholic party starts to blurr the lines of dialogue and abandons Church teachings that are obligatory because of the authority given by Christ to Peter and shared responsibility in communion with Peter to the other Apostles in their respective roles of Pope and Bishops. It is a serious error to ignore our reponsibilities to the Church and our Catholic brothers and sisters. Before reaching out to do serious evangelization between other denominations you are expected to prepare yourself by making yourself familiar with Church teaching. This is to make sure you are imparting Truth of the Faith and exercising the virtue of Prudence by protecting yourself by informed knowledge of all the Church teachings. So as to not put yourself in danger of losing the Faith in the misguided quest for Ecumenism at all costs. Jesus neither expects or wants that. It is also advisable to be come familiar with the Scriptures and their meaning as tought by the Catholic Church and not some personal interpretation. More damage can be done by well meaning Catholics that aren't able to represent the true position of the Catholic Church in it's teachings and dogma. Ecumenism would be defeated if the personal preparation was faulty and built on warm and fuzzy feelings. Remember this the Adversary is stalking every Catholic and he is well adept at twisting danger into a virtuous thing to do for the Lord. One never goes on a mountain climbing expedition wearing evening clothes and high heel stillettos. You would be inviting death of the body. So it is spiritually, you must prepare or risk spiritual death. Jesus appointed the Pope and the Bishops to be His voice and to guide and lead us in God's will as if He were speaking directly to us. Any thing less than full obedience to Church teaching will lead to Spiritual death. God will not accept efforts of Ecumenism as to be rewarded if in the process there is disobedience and ignoring of the Church's teaching. Christ gave authority to the Church and He expects and demands obedience to his bride The Holy Catholic Church. We just can't go and do our own thing and ignore our duty to Holy Mother Church and the Pope and Bishops that are in communion with His Holiness the Pope.

04/09/2013 new
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged for "...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged for "Love God" and "love others" if your love to God is not pure, you are not going to be able to love others and you will exclude the love to people in the name of God...

So, if RELIGION, not God, is making you se protestants as "them" and not "us", you should seriously start thinking how do you profess love to God...
--hide--


The teaching to love God includes the duty to follow all that he has commanded, including following legit Church teaching. No one is pitting God and religion against each other.

I know more people who have left the Holy Church (my whole CCD class?) than people who have enterd it. As for where the catechists were to emphasize the uniqueness of Church teaching from 6-9th grade, I don't know. All I ever heard was "love this, love that, give to the poor, etc." These are important, but nobody ever told us about such hard topics as Holy Eucharist, Holy Confession, the family as the Domestic Church, etc. Okay, there were a few catechists who would teach about these things from time to time, but for the most part I do not remember much in the way of substance.
04/09/2013 new
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged for "...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: Agree Peter, I guess the point is missing here, there is only two commandments we are going to be judged for "Love God" and "love others" if your love to God is not pure, you are not going to be able to love others and you will exclude the love to people in the name of God...

So, if RELIGION, not God, is making you se protestants as "them" and not "us", you should seriously start thinking how do you profess love to God...
--hide--


The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ and Protestants are outside of the visible Body of Christ. We cannot have a Churchless Christianity. Christ's Church is visible and one because Jesus came in the flesh and is not divided.

There are divisions FROM the Church of Christ never in it.

Protestants have excluded themselves from the Body of Christ, which is why we need to work to bring them into the unity of the Body of Christ that Jesus prayed for. We should work to convert Protestants precisely because we love them.

The following article has an excellent explanation of what orthodox Catholics believe about the Church.

www.calledtocommunion.com
04/09/2013 new
(Quote) John-220051 said: My point exactly. Catechesis and spiritual formation in the Catholic world is abysmal. So it's both.
(Quote) John-220051 said:

My point exactly. Catechesis and spiritual formation in the Catholic world is abysmal. So it's both.



That's why I think interfaith activities on the parish level aren't a good idea.
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Oh I totally agree.
04/09/2013 new
One more thing while we have just taken leave of the season of Lent: it wasn't before I arrived at my current parish that I understood the concept of spiritual growth. No one ever told me these things, that this was the purpose of Lent.

This, this, my friends, is what a bland, "ecumenical", Catholic faith looks like.
04/09/2013 new
(Quote) Paul-302787 said: One more thing while we have just taken leave of the season of Lent: it wasn't before I arrived at my current p...
(Quote) Paul-302787 said: One more thing while we have just taken leave of the season of Lent: it wasn't before I arrived at my current parish that I understood the concept of spiritual growth. No one ever told me these things, that this was the purpose of Lent.



This, this, my friends, is what a bland, "ecumenical", Catholic faith looks like.
--hide--


I know, there's hardly any teaching anymore from the pulpit in a lot of cases.
04/09/2013 new

(Quote) ED-20630 said: Chelsea, You use a whole lot of fancy and flowery $5.00 words and phrases trying to convey...
(Quote) ED-20630 said:

Chelsea,


You use a whole lot of fancy and flowery $5.00 words and phrases trying to convey and expound upon your various points while trying to convince others of the correctness of you views and analyses... But you will really box yourself into a very small (acceptable) world indeed with your attitudes and condescension towards genuine people of other faiths as you proceed through the rest of your life. I can't imagine that someone from another religion would ever see the value of converting to Catholicism after a having a conversation with you. That is very, very unfortunate. I hope that you begin to see the value of genuine people of faith outside of your very small box as you get older.


Further discussion of your various points would be quite fruitless at this point in time... so I will pass on it.


Just my thoughts.


Ed



--hide--

Chelsea has quoted Church Teaching and not $5.00 of flowery words. I wouldn't say they were only your thoughts, it was more like a patronising sermon of what you see as an antiquated expression of the faith. Wrong! She is accurate in everything she has said. No venom, no agression, no insult. Just fact. If she were to talk to a Protestant or two she wouldn't be typing. She would be interacting at a personal level incorporating the spoken word and listening whilst injecting her own personality into the conversation. At the end of the conversation they would be well informed of the true thoughts and teachings of the Church. Which is far better than a bunch of well meaning flowery back slapping with no spine to it and achiving nothing else other than increasing thr CO2 levels for a nearby plant to benefit from. You indicate further discussion would be fruitless, well that's because you haven't got a tree that can bear fruit. Jesus was no weak kneed sicophant trying to be all things to all men. He does not say you will be loved by all men. Just the opposite is what He says will happen. Let's clear the air here I attend Church that celebrates the Novus Ordo. So you can't label me as a Traditionalist. Incidentally I don't have a problem with that as I see them as faithful loyal Catholics that have been treated abominably by extreme trendy modernists whom have done more damage to the Church and Vatican 2 than any other force on the Earth. Now Vatican 2 is a continuation of Vatican ! (a short lived Council) Council of Trent is also incorporated and enmeshed in Vatican 2. None of the Dogmas or other Proclaimed documents in any of the Church Councils going back to the beginning of the Church has changed or ever will be changed. It is Tooth Fairy pipe dreams of fanciful dissobedient modernist dissedents that hope for this and have at times tried by bluff to bully orthodox Catholics into their burrows. Well that aint happening the party is over and the Tooth Fairy is out of Fluoride. The name of the game is Obedience to all the Church's Teachings. None of the Teachings of the Church are old fashioned. They are the expression of the will of God and we are expected to comply. Chelsea was only putting forward the Truth. It is not her version or insight of truth, it is direct quote from valid Church Teaching and it is unfair to tar with a brush of intolerance or small mindedness. You can't ignore Church Teaching or pretend you don't know. You are expected by God to inform yourself about what the Church teaches and then obey as if God Himself spoke to you. That is the way Jesus set up the Church. If your in the army you can't pick and choose regulations. Well it is even more so in the case of the Church because the are God's commands and not some jumped up little General. This might help remove some of the fog that you seemed to be lost in.

04/09/2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: Chelsea has quoted Church Teaching and not $5.00 of flowery words. I wouldn't say they...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

Chelsea has quoted Church Teaching and not $5.00 of flowery words. I wouldn't say they were only your thoughts, it was more like a patronising sermon of what you see as an antiquated expression of the faith. Wrong! She is accurate in everything she has said. No venom, no agression, no insult. Just fact. If she were to talk to a Protestant or two she wouldn't be typing. She would be interacting at a personal level incorporating the spoken word and listening whilst injecting her own personality into the conversation. At the end of the conversation they would be well informed of the true thoughts and teachings of the Church. Which is far better than a bunch of well meaning flowery back slapping with no spine to it and achiving nothing else other than increasing thr CO2 levels for a nearby plant to benefit from. You indicate further discussion would be fruitless, well that's because you haven't got a tree that can bear fruit. Jesus was no weak kneed sicophant trying to be all things to all men. He does not say you will be loved by all men. Just the opposite is what He says will happen. Let's clear the air here I attend Church that celebrates the Novus Ordo. So you can't label me as a Traditionalist. Incidentally I don't have a problem with that as I see them as faithful loyal Catholics that have been treated abominably by extreme trendy modernists whom have done more damage to the Church and Vatican 2 than any other force on the Earth. Now Vatican 2 is a continuation of Vatican ! (a short lived Council) Council of Trent is also incorporated and enmeshed in Vatican 2. None of the Dogmas or other Proclaimed documents in any of the Church Councils going back to the beginning of the Church has changed or ever will be changed. It is Tooth Fairy pipe dreams of fanciful dissobedient modernist dissedents that hope for this and have at times tried by bluff to bully orthodox Catholics into their burrows. Well that aint happening the party is over and the Tooth Fairy is out of Fluoride. The name of the game is Obedience to all the Church's Teachings. None of the Teachings of the Church are old fashioned. They are the expression of the will of God and we are expected to comply. Chelsea was only putting forward the Truth. It is not her version or insight of truth, it is direct quote from valid Church Teaching and it is unfair to tar with a brush of intolerance or small mindedness. You can't ignore Church Teaching or pretend you don't know. You are expected by God to inform yourself about what the Church teaches and then obey as if God Himself spoke to you. That is the way Jesus set up the Church. If your in the army you can't pick and choose regulations. Well it is even more so in the case of the Church because the are God's commands and not some jumped up little General. This might help remove some of the fog that you seemed to be lost in.

--hide--
thumbsup thumbsup

04/09/2013 new
Some of the differences of Catholic vs. Protestant are doctrinal teaching influencing social aspects of either faith. Unfortunatly for us in the United States, our homeland was founded upon the Protestant faiths, not Catholic.

1. Calvanism

This is probably one of the greatest social divisions between Catholic and Protestant. Protestants will say that this doctrine is no longer supported, but it is bound into Protestant culture. Catholics believe that the person is inherently good, no matter what. If someone is down and out, drunk or drug-ridden, begging on the street, it woud be a Catholic to more likely give him a $1.00, than a Protestant. Here is why: Calvanism, which is a Protestant premise, gives that some persons are bound for heaven, and some not, and that this is predetermined by God.

If one is successful, healthy, having good fortune, having a good life, this is evidence that one is bound for heaven, e.g., "chosen," by God. Conversely, if not, this is also evidence that one is not bound for heaven, and may even deserve to be shunned by Godly persons.

According to Calvanism, one is also proved to be bound for heaven by evidence of his "good works." This explains why Protestants, historically, have been more physically active in their faith. A Protestant would be more likely to give a large sum of money to a charity from a distance, whereas a Catholic would be more likely to give $1.00 and a blessing to a brother in need, on the street.
04/09/2013 new
(Quote) John-220051 said: The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ and Protestants are outside of the visible Body of Christ. We can...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

The Catholic Church is the Body of Christ and Protestants are outside of the visible Body of Christ. We cannot have a Churchless Christianity. Christ's Church is visible and one because Jesus came in the flesh and is not divided.

There are divisions FROM the Church of Christ never in it.

Protestants have excluded themselves from the Body of Christ, which is why we need to work to bring them into the unity of the Body of Christ that Jesus prayed for. We should work to convert Protestants precisely because we love them.

The following article has an excellent explanation of what orthodox Catholics believe about the Church.

www.calledtocommunion.com
--hide--
How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "them" I never said I was questioning my faith at any moment but as Gandhi dais "I like Christ but not Christmas as they do not live in the love they profess" instead of focusing in theory we should start practicing...
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