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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refe...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "them" I never said I was questioning my faith at any moment but as Gandhi dais "I like Christ but not Christmas as they do not live in the love they profess" instead of focusing in theory we should start practicing...
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One more time Mr Music! We are using the term them not in a derogatory manner but as a way of identification for conversation purposes. No one here is pointing fingers of hate or anger. There is a lot of ground to work through and it does no good to engage in dialogue if you're not fully conversant with Church teaching and how the Church explains the subject matter themselves. Most of the pre 1960's books give very in depth explanations that can be presented in an edifying manner. These works are not outdated as the subject matter is Eternal. I have acquired a vast library from modernists throwing out books to be burnt without the authority to do so.I have a small spot where I can sit! My musical instruments and my 2 cats and my vast library have taken over! Which by the way I'm quite happy with! So in closing don't dispair we are not on a hate fest. We are only trying to do what is spiritually good for our separated brothers and sisters. THe Catholic Church contains the fullness of truth. These people are victims of self indulgent renegades that broke away from the Church and then proceeded to drag others in to the same pit they fell into.I t is up to us to give them access to the fullness of truth without compromise. It is what God expects of us. If you want to blame someone focus on the founders and become familiar with where their error lies and use that to bridge the gap. Unfortunately there isn't a magic wand to wave to fix things Satan used it for firewood! laughing

Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Con-888377 said: I am not focusing on the errors. I am saying it is not that easy. The more militant strain...
(Quote) Con-888377 said:

I am not focusing on the errors. I am saying it is not that easy. The more militant strains of protestantism are happy to preach to the Catholic with the view of converting the Catholic as soon as the Catholic enumerates the Church'e teaching and the reasons for it, the tactic is to loudly talk over largely ignoring the Catholic point of view and nothing is achieved. It is not a fault or a criticism of them that our history of connection to the Apostles and Jesus is unbroken. This is something hardliners will not agree with. This happens even if you present hard evidence of this truth of our historical links with the Apostles and ultimately with us, the Church, given a mission to go and preach the Good News. To get a taste of what is out there may I suggest you go on the internet and engage the Evangelic Protestant web sites in an Ecumenical discussion. This will give you first hand experience of what I mean of the one way street syndrome. I am not saying don't try but you better be well prepared because they are, part of their training is combative dialogue with the intent of converting the target. Another side of the coin is our own Church has been torn and ravaged by scandals and internal divisions I think we need to fix our own boat before we go fishing in strange and hostile waters. There are a lot of hurt and wounded Catholics that are in desperate need. We need to bridge the the rift caused by ultra modernists whom drove out what are now described as Traditionalists. This should never have happened. It was not Vatican 2 that did this but rather the abuse and false interpretation which flew the flag "In the Spirit of Vatican 2" to cover their abuse and deliberate twisting of the document to achieve their own ends. We need to all come back together and repair the boat and clean the rats off the decks. I am referring to pedophiles and over Liberal dissenters. Then we will be in a place to reach out as one body united in Christ Jesus.

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Why make this assumption that I have no experience in communicating with evangelicals? And you are still focusing on how wrong they are. Why?

Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "them" I never said I was questioning my faith at any moment but as Gandhi dais "I like Christ but not Christmas as they do not live in the love they profess" instead of focusing in theory we should start practicing...
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I am a convert from Protestantism, so that's the perspective I bring.
Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) John-220051 said: I am a convert from Protestantism, so that's the perspective I bring.
(Quote) John-220051 said:

I am a convert from Protestantism, so that's the perspective I bring.
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Very nice John. Happy belated welcome my Catholic brother!
Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: The biggest problem with a lot of what has passed for ecumenism since Vatican II is that it has m...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

The biggest problem with a lot of what has passed for ecumenism since Vatican II is that it has minimized doctrinal divisions and sown confusion among the faithful that there is no difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. Just look at the millions of Catholics who have become Protestant or neo-Protestant (Those who have adopted Protestant attitudes while remaining in the Catholic Church) since Vatican II to see the fruits of ecumenism.

The trend of Protestants heading in the other direction has been much smaller.

Social ecumenism on issues we share in common is one thing, but we shouldn't pretend that we share the same faith.

Even Vatican II's Decree on Ecumenism says: "The way and method in which the Catholic faith is expressed should never become an obstacle to dialogue with our brethren. It is, of course, essential that the doctrine should be clearly presented in its entirety. Nothing is so foreign to the spirit of ecumenism as a false irenicism, in which the purity of Catholic doctrine suffers loss and its genuine and certain meaning is clouded."
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John, what I'm referring to largely is unity in the promotion of charity and social justice. That involves God-given rights that should be afforded every human being. When different faith groups come together, it isn't about doctrines or proseletyzing -- it's about doing good.

In situations outside of that realm, doctrine can become important, but our own attitude will speak volumes. Should we be beating our chests, boasting that "we're right -- you're wrong.?" Most likely that will end up as confrontational and accomplish nothing but more dislike for the Catholic Church. Snobbery accomplishes little. More effective is dialogue -- at least presenting our Catholic point of view -- what it is and why be believe in it. Trying to force our beliefs down someone's throat just doesn't work. Nor can we compromise. The Church is not a democratic institution; we don't cast our votes to change doctrines.

With increasing diversity, it will become more important to emphasize our common beliefs so that we're not fighting with other Christians, while enmity from other sources sneaks in.

After all, we we all came from the same Creator.

Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "...
(Quote) Lilia-959452 said: How do you convert someone if you have not love for others? I have seen many comments here where we refer as "them" I never said I was questioning my faith at any moment but as Gandhi dais "I like Christ but not Christmas as they do not live in the love they profess" instead of focusing in theory we should start practicing...
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We cannot practice our faith if we do not know what it is. It does no one any spiritual good to whitewash the differences between us.
Apr 9th 2013 new
Protestantism is like getting half of a loaf of bread. The Catholic Magisterium always gives us a North Star to guide us through stormy seas.

Protestants lack that. Frankly they can't even agree on basic matters of faith. I found that disconcerting before I converted.
Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Ray-566531 said: John, what I'm referring to largely is unity in the promotion of charity and social justice. That involves Go...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

John, what I'm referring to largely is unity in the promotion of charity and social justice. That involves God-given rights that should be afforded every human being. When different faith groups come together, it isn't about doctrines or proseletyzing -- it's about doing good.



In situations outside of that realm, doctrine can become important, but our own attitude will speak volumes. Should we be beating our chests, boasting that "we're right -- you're wrong.?" Most likely that will end up as confrontational and accomplish nothing but more dislike for the Catholic Church. Snobbery accomplishes little. More effective is dialogue -- at least presenting our Catholic point of view -- what it is and why be believe in it. Trying to force our beliefs down someone's throat just doesn't work. Nor can we compromise. The Church is not a democratic institution; we don't cast our votes to change doctrines.



With increasing diversity, it will become more important to emphasize our common beliefs so that we're not fighting with other Christians, while enmity from other sources sneaks in.



After all, we we all came from the same Creator.

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Let's not go looking for a fight, but if one finds us we need to be prepared to respond. We should put more effort into interfaith discussions with the Orthodox, conservative Anglicans and Lutherans than in having fruitless discussions with Evangelicals.

I'm all for common cause on political and cultural issues and the like, but we can't paper over our differences and promote indifferentism.
Apr 9th 2013 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: Let's not go looking for a fight, but if one finds us we need to be prepared to respond. We s...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

Let's not go looking for a fight, but if one finds us we need to be prepared to respond. We should put more effort into interfaith discussions with the Orthodox, conservative Anglicans and Lutherans than in having fruitless discussions with Evangelicals.

I'm all for common cause on political and cultural issues and the like, but we can't paper over our differences and promote indifferentism.
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Getting along with someone of a different belief doesn't automatically translate into indifferentism. Most people who work deal with a diverse group of people. They have to get along, or....well, you know what happens when they don't.

Having attended a workshop on evangelization, the good priest (who has written several books on the subject) suggested strongly that we begin with Catholics who aren't practicing. Bringing them back into the active fold is a worthy goal. In many areas, there are interfaith discussions taking place, including our archdiocese. I would imagine this is being done in several other areas as well. This often involves the higher ranking clergy -- bishops, pastors, rabbis, and so on. Is every discussion fruitless? Not necessarily if we can at least agree to disagree. Sometimes it's that first step that can lead to another.

True, we should defend our Faith when necessary, but approaches can vary, as can the results.

Apr 9th 2013 new
(Quote) Ray-566531 said: Getting along with someone of a different belief doesn't automatically translate into indifferentism. Most pe...
(Quote) Ray-566531 said:

Getting along with someone of a different belief doesn't automatically translate into indifferentism. Most people who work deal with a diverse group of people. They have to get along, or....well, you know what happens when they don't.



Having attended a workshop on evangelization, the good priest (who has written several books on the subject) suggested strongly that we begin with Catholics who aren't practicing. Bringing them back into the active fold is a worthy goal. In many areas, there are interfaith discussions taking place, including our archdiocese. I would imagine this is being done in several other areas as well. This often involves the higher ranking clergy -- bishops, pastors, rabbis, and so on. Is every discussion fruitless? Not necessarily if we can at least agree to disagree. Sometimes it's that first step that can lead to another.



True, we should defend our Faith when necessary, but approaches can vary, as can the results.

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My encounters with Catholic laity over the past 20 years has shown me there is a lot of religious indifferentism among them vis-a-vis the Protestants. I see a strong insecurity among Catholics about being Catholic and about wanting to be like them.

Lex orendi lex credendi
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