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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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New Book: American Church

Apr 15th 2013 new
Here is a new book that I heard about:

American Church The Remarkable Rise, Meteoric Fall, and Uncertain Future of Catholicism in America
By: Russell Shaw

Can Catholics be both fully American and also faithful Catholics?

I highly recommend you watch the video.

www.ignatius.com
May 25th 2013 new
The collapse of the Church has been breathtaking. Earlier today I was looking at a bulletin from our old parish from 1982. The parish had 16 masses a week back then; it was one of four parishes in town. I estimate there were about 50 masses a week in town in 1982. Today there are 11 masses a week at one church. In 1982 there three Catholic schools with probably 800 or so students. Today there is one school with about 110 students. The overall population of the town has declined, but it's nothing like East St. Louis. We went through a brutal consolidation of parishes that drove away many people and a few years before that, the diocese basically shut down one of the Catholic schools but of course blamed the closing on parishioners.

Our hierarchy is worthless if not downright evil for many decades. I feel so stupid when I think back at how I defended losers such as Cardinal Bernardin in years past. We were used. I used to believe that liturgists' horrible renovations of American churches were actually required by Vatican II.

I might not agree with everything Cardinal Gibbons did, but he was a visionary when it came to building a strong American Church. What do we have today? Just bishops who want to close everything down and become a Church of "the poor."
May 28th 2013 new
I saw the video you posted. The fact that the question was asked it in it;

"What is more important- being a Catholic or being an American?" shows how far the Church has fallen in the United States.

The video said that Catholicism has been a part of America from the beginning. That much is true. But the more correct analysis is that the Church has been persecuted in America from the beginning. It always has, and it always will be. The Church is called to the be the Salt of the Earth by our Blessed Lord, and salt is necessarily different from the substances that it is applied to; otherwise its properties are not used. The same is true for the Church; it MUST be different from the prevailing culture in order to sanctify it. It was given the Roman Empire of Nero and it produced the Roman Empire of Constantine; it was given the barbarians like Attilla the Hun and it produced the great Christian lords like St. Louis IX and Isabella of Castille. That is what happens when the Church does its mission properly.

Now, the American Church has largely fallen into the American "melting pot" and has become so enmeshed in the culture that it can no longer do its job. And the words of Our Lord in the event of the Church's failure in this regard had come true as well: "It is fit to only be thrown out and trampled on by men".

The American Church has become a popular punchline and receives condemnation from the population, no matter how hard the American Catholics try to be more American and less Catholic. It has reached the point where it is mutually exclusive to be either a faithful Catholic or a true American. Do not doubt that. We must consider ourselves Catholics first and foremost, and battle everything "American" that flies in the face of that. I will quote a thought on this by one of my favorite bloggers, The Catholic Knight, written after the 2012 election:

"God has allowed America to become a land of evil, that promotes evil worldwide, and as this election has painfully demonstrated, we the faithful are powerless to stop it. This is God's will for our nation, and for this reason, all sentimental attachment to our nation should henceforth be cut free and placed into the loving arms of Christ, his Catholic Church, and his blessed Mother Mary. We are citizens of Heaven now, agents of the Vatican, and soldiers of the pope. We are Americans by birth and circumstance only. Our love of country MUST come secondary to our love of Christ, Church and Sacrament. We are CATHOLICS FIRST and Americans only second. This will ready us for the days ahead."

The United States of America will one day collapse, like all empires do, but the Catholic Church will remain until the End of Time, as Our Lord himself has prophesied. Which institution is more important to you?
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