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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Meg-920823 said: Sarah, I agree that we should address pre-marital sex and those issues. I am concerned however, th...
(Quote) Meg-920823 said:

Sarah, I agree that we should address pre-marital sex and those issues. I am concerned however, that aside from the moral issue of preventing pregnancy, the pill can be an abortifactant.
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There is a pill called Plan B that is, but that's not proper birth control that is being used as prescribed. Some women do miscarry when they're on birth control, but women also misscarry when they're not on the pill. Here's a good article for you: miscarriage.about.com

It does talk about using a high dosage after unprotected sex, but that goes back to the pre-marital sex issue.

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: The catholic church condemns doing anything remotely sexual for unmarried persons so I think th...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:

The catholic church condemns doing anything remotely sexual for unmarried persons so I think there is plenty emphasis on that.

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I agree, but I think Sarah's point (and I don't mean to speak for Sarah) was if we can limit the amount of pre-marital sex it will help both with an increase in NFP and abortions.


Lets face it, the Churchs stance is very clear on pre-marital sex, but the acceptance of that teaching is rather low. I'm not saying I agree with this priest, but the priest that sat in on our marriage prep assumed that everyone in the group was already sexually active (based on statistics) and even suggested that we should enjoy it while we can, because statistically speaking marriage was a big buzz kill in a couples sex life. Yes this was a Catholic priest! Of course when the couple that is leading the marriage prep starts the program off with we've been married for 10 years, and have a 13 year old daughter you KNOW that some of the Chruch teachings are going to take a back-burner!!


Additionally how the message gets taught from the pulpit (if at all) makes a big difference. I heard a Bishop exclaim during a Homily "Contraception is DEAD WRONG, DEAD WRONG I TELL YOU" (in a firm fire & brimestone kind of tone). I'm not disagreeing with what he said, but the problem is he dropped it at that, and moved onto another topic. By that point in time almost everyone had tuned him out because here was another priest who just has to interfere in my sex life, and what do they know, afterall they're celibate and don't have sex!! Had this Bishop taken his 30 minute homily and explained 1 topic instead of 15 he could have had an impact, but a fist pounding on the pulpit left people with a bad taste.


However, as you said, this post is not about how the Church can better teach it's possitions on pre-marital sex or abortions (pre-marital sex being the issue that is harder to sell).

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: That is the reason that NFP should be used - to try to better chances of conception. I think to...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:

That is the reason that NFP should be used - to try to better chances of conception. I think too many use it for the other reason - trying NOT to conceive a child. That is still better than artificial means, but is it really THAT much better?

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If it's the responsible thing to do then YES it is! Remember the Church (Pope Paul VI's direct words) calls couples to responsible parenthood. Responsible parenthood does not mean having having no sex, it means responsible timing of sex WITH the openess to new life should God will it.

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-793888 said: I agree, but I think Sarah's point (and I don't mean to speak for Sarah) was...
(Quote) Peter-793888 said:


I agree, but I think Sarah's point (and I don't mean to speak for Sarah) was if we can limit the amount of pre-marital sex it will help both with an increase in NFP and abortions.


Lets face it, the Churchs stance is very clear on pre-marital sex, but the acceptance of that teaching is rather low. I'm not saying I agree with this priest, but the priest that sat in on our marriage prep assumed that everyone in the group was already sexually active (based on statistics) and even suggested that we should enjoy it while we can, because statistically speaking marriage was a big buzz kill in a couples sex life. Yes this was a Catholic priest! Of course when the couple that is leading the marriage prep starts the program off with we've been married for 10 years, and have a 13 year old daughter you KNOW that some of the Chruch teachings are going to take a back-burner!!


Additionally how the message gets taught from the pulpit (if at all) makes a big difference. I heard a Bishop exclaim during a Homily "Contraception is DEAD WRONG, DEAD WRONG I TELL YOU" (in a firm fire & brimestone kind of tone). I'm not disagreeing with what he said, but the problem is he dropped it at that, and moved onto another topic. By that point in time almost everyone had tuned him out because here was another priest who just has to interfere in my sex life, and what do they know, afterall they're celibate and don't have sex!! Had this Bishop taken his 30 minute homily and explained 1 topic instead of 15 he could have had an impact, but a fist pounding on the pulpit left people with a bad taste.


However, as you said, this post is not about how the Church can better teach it's possitions on pre-marital sex or abortions (pre-marital sex being the issue that is harder to sell).

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I can see how if a priest were to condemn contraception at they pulpit that could turn people off. But, that is so rare these days, I give him credit for having the courage to do it. I suppose the better way would be to invite people to learn more about Theology of the Body as that is a more positive approach. On the other hand, as someone who has been to some TOB lectures and studies, they can be quite complex in nature so that may not work either for some people. So mmmm.... maybe both approaches??????

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: The catholic church condemns doing anything remotely sexual for unmarried persons s...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:




The catholic church condemns doing anything remotely sexual for unmarried persons so I think there is plenty emphasis on that. This thread is about NFP and contraception - not pre-marital sex. There really isn't anything to discuss for single given the aformentioned statement.


--hide--


I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rallys, and advertisment for pro-life and about contraceptives and not a lot on pre-marital sex other than a brief "you should wait till you're married" I realize that you shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but quite a few men on here have "do not accept the church's teachings" on both contraception and pre-marital sex. So based on that I think it's resonable to think Contraception is being used by people who are on here that are single and are having sex.


Also it tied in with my first paragraph that is about using contraception in marriage for medical reasons.

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Sarah-449699 said: I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rall...
(Quote) Sarah-449699 said:


I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rallys, and advertisment for pro-life and about contraceptives and not a lot on pre-marital sex other than a brief "you should wait till you're married" I realize that you shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but quite a few men on here have "do not accept the church's teachings" on both contraception and pre-marital sex. So based on that I think it's resonable to think Contraception is being used by people who are on here that are single and are having sex.


Also it tied in with my first paragraph that is about using contraception in marriage for medical reasons.

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It is not reasonable - they shouldn't be having sex. I suppose if you want to make the argument that two wrongs will lessen the chance of potential chaos... you can do that. But, there are secular sites for that.

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Meg-920823 said: I did not know that, Patrick, on US premarital blood tests...
(Quote) Meg-920823 said:

I did not know that, Patrick, on US premarital blood tests...
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Medical history (if you call eugenics medicine) says that in the late 19th century eugenics became very popular among especialli WASPs who felt that the poor (read Blacks, Irish and assorted Catholics) should not breed if certain characteristics were showing in then genetics. A scietist, from (any Im remebering lectures 39 years ago) Britain or France, living in New York said he could prove the existence or not by a blood test (which he couldnt, we didnt unravell the Human genenome untill 1998) and son 48 States passed laws making it law to have a blood test before marrying, the Federal Government then passed a law covering all US territory.

The stupid thing is blood tests in the early part of the 20th were lucky if they could prove blood type, let alone any eugenically based "science" that they wanted. in the 90 years blood test were done prenuptially not one person/couple is reported to have failed??

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Sarah-449699 said: I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rall...
(Quote) Sarah-449699 said:


I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rallys, and advertisment for pro-life and about contraceptives and not a lot on pre-marital sex other than a brief "you should wait till you're married" I realize that you shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but quite a few men on here have "do not accept the church's teachings" on both contraception and pre-marital sex. So based on that I think it's resonable to think Contraception is being used by people who are on here that are single and are having sex.


Also it tied in with my first paragraph that is about using contraception in marriage for medical reasons.

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Watch New Zealand TV you will lots about premarital sex and the risks the young run from Hepititis to pregnacy to STDs to social stigma. Mostly due to govt wanting to save on spending on the fore mentioned issues.

Unfortunately New Zealand has the second highest number of young unmarried mothers in the world, and we still murder 10000 babies per year!!!!!

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Patrick-341178 said: It is not reasonable - they shouldn't be having sex. I suppose if you want to m...
(Quote) Patrick-341178 said:




It is not reasonable - they shouldn't be having sex. I suppose if you want to make the argument that two wrongs will lessen the chance of potential chaos... you can do that. But, there are secular sites for that.

--hide--

Two wrongs dont make a right. What is wrong is wrong and can never be made right no matter how many people want it to be so.

Apr 24th 2013 new

(Quote) Sarah-449699 said: I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rall...
(Quote) Sarah-449699 said:


I was talking about raising awareness on the issues. I've seen lots emails, rallys, and advertisment for pro-life and about contraceptives and not a lot on pre-marital sex other than a brief "you should wait till you're married" I realize that you shouldn't be having sex before marriage, but quite a few men on here have "do not accept the church's teachings" on both contraception and pre-marital sex. So based on that I think it's resonable to think Contraception is being used by people who are on here that are single and are having sex.


Also it tied in with my first paragraph that is about using contraception in marriage for medical reasons.

--hide--

You maybe right, but thats between God and them. Speaking of medical reason I had a friend who was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer, a very aggressive form, he and his fiance had premarital sex so she would get pegnant before he died. Their wedding was planed for the month following his radiotherapy, which would have sterilised him. He died a few weeks latter, after only the first round of treatment, but she found out she was pregnant 3 months latter.

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