Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

May 04 new

Got it ! biggrin Thanks , Paul and Chelsea.

May 04 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: (Quote) Reena-961146 said: And the filioque O...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:

Quote:
Reena-961146 said:






And the filioque



Orthodoxy : " ..who proceeds from the Father through the Son..."



Catholic : " who proceeds from the Father AND the Son..."



Many of the Christian Holy Sites in Jerasalem are co-ran by Catholics (bless those Franciscans) and Orthodox.




Anyone remember this fight between the Armenian monks and Greek Orthodox monks at the Holy Sepulchre?



www.youtube.com



Truly union. As Jesus said in John's Gospel chapter 17:21 "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."






The commissions meeting at the highest levels to try to resolve the difference have already agreed that the "filioque" is no longer a point of contention.



In fact, they have virtually reached agreemrnt on all theological points.



The main problem is the resolution of the status of the Roman Ponitiff and the infallibility issues arising from that..

--hide--


So, have they settled the difference of belief of the filioque?
May 04 new
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said: The whole cusp of the Filioque controversy is the limits to Papal authority. The Filioque was added ...
(Quote) Chelsea-743484 said:



The whole cusp of the Filioque controversy is the limits to Papal authority. The Filioque was added to the Nicene Creed with Papal approbation outside of a General Council. The ones who profess eastern orthodoxy claim this is not within the Roman Pontiff's authority to approve on his own.

The azymes controversy is or at least was another dividing factor...since the eastern orthodox professed it to be judaizing to confect the Eucharist in the species of unleavened bread.

--hide--


The filioque was added to the Roman creed by Pope Benedict VIII a little over 200 years after his predecessor Pope Leo III forbade its use.
May 04 new
(Quote) Cindy-534370 said: So, have they settled the difference of belief of the filioque?
(Quote) Cindy-534370 said:

So, have they settled the difference of belief of the filioque?
--hide--


That depends who you talk to. Some Orthodox are far more hawkish on the issue than others.
May 04 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: The filioque was added to the Roman creed by Pope Benedict VIII a little over 200 years after his...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

The filioque was added to the Roman creed by Pope Benedict VIII a little over 200 years after his predecessor Pope Leo III forbade its use.
--hide--

Leo II did not forbid its use. He approved the concept but ADVISED against its use. Despite that it was used and had had been used in the Latin Church as early as the the late 500s with no opposition from the East. It is not certain exactly when he was officially added to the Creed, despite its wide use prior to its being made official. Although its formal approval and addition to the Creed is generally assigned to Benedict VIII it is not certain that it was he. Its use was approved by several councils well before Leo III.

It was never condemned by anyone in the East or West until the schism of the East.

See the Catholic encyclopedia.

May 04 new

(Quote) Cindy-534370 said: So, have they settled the difference of belief of the filioque?
(Quote) Cindy-534370 said:

So, have they settled the difference of belief of the filioque?
--hide--

The ecumenical meetings between official representatives of both the East and West have agreed that that it is no longer a matter of dispute. Otherwise, John's statement is correct. Some Eastern Bishops have accepeted it and some still oppose it.

May 04 new
(Quote) Paul-866591 said: Leo II did not forbid its use. He approved the concept but ADVISED against its ...
(Quote) Paul-866591 said:





Leo II did not forbid its use. He approved the concept but ADVISED against its use. Despite that it was used and had had been used in the Latin Church as early as the the late 500s with no opposition from the East. It is not certain exactly when he was officially added to the Creed, despite its wide use prior to its being made official. Although its formal approval and addition to the Creed is generally assigned to Benedict VIII it is not certain that it was he. Its use was approved by several councils well before Leo III.



It was never condemned by anyone in the East or West until the schism of the East.





See the Catholic encyclopedia.

--hide--


You are incorrect. Pope Leo III forbade the liturgical use of the filioque in the creed and even had a silver plaque placed in Old St. Peter's in Rome without the filioque. But the Franks ignored the Pope and continued using it.

The Catholic Encyclopedia's author is trying to gloss over this fact of history. The Church of Rome OMITTED the filioque.

From the USCCB website: While Leo III affirmed the orthodoxy of the term Filioque, and approved its use in catechesis and personal professions of faith, he explicitly disapproved its inclusion in the text of the Creed of 381, since the Fathers of that Council - who were, he observes, no less inspired by the Holy Spirit than the bishops who had gathered at Aachen - had chosen not to include it. Pope Leo stipulated that the use of the Creed in the celebration of the Eucharist was permissible, but not required, and urged that in the interest of preventing scandal it would be better if the Carolingian court refrained from including it in the liturgy. Around this time, according to the Liber Pontificalis, the Pope had two heavy silver shields made and displayed in St. Peters, containing the original text of the Creed of 381 in both Greek and Latin. Despite his directives and this symbolic action, however, the Carolingians continued to use the Creed with the Filioque during the Eucharist in their own dioceses.

www.usccb.org

The controversy has a lot to do with the imprecision of the Latin verb precedere, which means to send. It stands in stark contrast with the meaning of the original Greek text that uses ex pouresis, which connotes an origin of the Holy Spirit from the Father alone.

Pope Francis should consider striking the filioque from the Latin creed as a gesture to the Eastern Churches.

The Vatican's Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity put out an excellent document on the subject back in the 1990s. www.ewtn.com
May 04 new
My own Eastern Catholic church omits the filioque from the creed.
May 04 new
(Quote) Reena-961146 said: And the filioque Orthodoxy : " ..who proceeds from the Father through ...
(Quote) Reena-961146 said:




And the filioque



Orthodoxy : " ..who proceeds from the Father through the Son..."



Catholic : " who proceeds from the Father AND the Son..."



Many of the Christian Holy Sites in Jerasalem are co-ran by Catholics (bless those Franciscans) and Orthodox.




Anyone remember this fight between the Armenian monks and Greek Orthodox monks at the Holy Sepulchre?



www.youtube.com



Truly union. As Jesus said in John's Gospel chapter 17:21 "That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me."

--hide--


If I remember correctly, the Armenians in this fight were of the Armenian Apostolic Church, not the Armenian Catholic Church.
May 04 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: You are incorrect. Pope Leo III forbade the liturgical use of the filioque in the creed and even ...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

You are incorrect. Pope Leo III forbade the liturgical use of the filioque in the creed and even had a silver plaque placed in Old St. Peter's in Rome without the filioque. But the Franks ignored the Pope and continued using it.

The Catholic Encyclopedia's author is trying to gloss over this fact of history. The Church of Rome OMITTED the filioque.

From the USCCB website: While Leo III affirmed the orthodoxy of the term Filioque, and approved its use in catechesis and personal professions of faith, he explicitly disapproved its inclusion in the text of the Creed of 381, since the Fathers of that Council - who were, he observes, no less inspired by the Holy Spirit than the bishops who had gathered at Aachen - had chosen not to include it. Pope Leo stipulated that the use of the Creed in the celebration of the Eucharist was permissible, but not required, and urged that in the interest of preventing scandal it would be better if the Carolingian court refrained from including it in the liturgy. Around this time, according to the Liber Pontificalis, the Pope had two heavy silver shields made and displayed in St. Peters, containing the original text of the Creed of 381 in both Greek and Latin. Despite his directives and this symbolic action, however, the Carolingians continued to use the Creed with the Filioque during the Eucharist in their own dioceses.

www.usccb.org

The controversy has a lot to do with the imprecision of the Latin verb precedere, which means to send. It stands in stark contrast with the meaning of the original Greek text that uses ex pouresis, which connotes an origin of the Holy Spirit from the Father alone.

Pope Francis should consider striking the filioque from the Latin creed as a gesture to the Eastern Churches.

The Vatican's Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity put out an excellent document on the subject back in the 1990s. www.ewtn.com
--hide--

You appear to be conceeding that it was okayed for uses in catechisis and personal professions. That seems to preclude describing him as forbiding it. The fact that he omitted it in certain places is not the same as a prohibition.

Posts 11 - 20 of 27