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This room is for general discussion that doesn't specifically fit into one of the other CatholicMatch rooms. Topics should not be overly serious as this is to be more of a "cafe setting."

Saint Peter's Square was created so that more people could be in the presence of the Pope and was named after Saint Peter, one of Jesus's apostles.
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Apr 25th 2013 new

(Quote) David-629572 said: To quote a famous comedian, "Chivalry is dead... and women killed it." While...
(Quote) David-629572 said:

To quote a famous comedian, "Chivalry is dead... and women killed it."


While most of us can cite specific examples of chivalry here and there, I would argue that, on the whole, it is a left-over remnant of a society that has basically ceased to exist for the past 40-50 odd years. Chivalrous acts by men (holding the door open, giving up a seat to a woman on the subway, etc.) signal that men and women occupy distinct places in society, and that men are the protectors and providers for women. Since the triumph of the feminist revolution and the entrance of women into the workplace as the equals of men (now, even on the front lines of battle), chivalrous gestures no longer make any sense in a world where men are not regarded by society as the protectors and providers for women.


I am a medical student who works in a hospital, and I can attest that if I went around opening doors for female doctors and nurses, many of them would regard that gesture with suspicion, even as insulting to them. I can't say I blame them-- medicine is very hierarchical, and for a student to imply through his actions that he is in some way above his superiors is a big no-no.


So it is very confusing for men to know when chivalry is appropriate in today's society-- when it will be appreciated, and when it may be met with confusion, contempt, and even hostitily.

--hide--

I know what you are saying here Dave, I see it sometimes with my colleagues. One day one female friend became all offended when a gentleman held the door for us. I thanked him and she was complaining and I finally turned to her and said, it is such a shame that you can't appreciate courtesy, no matter who offers it. I think women who considered chivalry chauvanistic need to rephrase it in their own mind and accept it as neutral gender courtesy. I for one love it and I definitely try to extend courtesy as well.

I work with a large number of researchers from Peru. And, they maintain a very congenial, proper Old World sense of chivalry and it is such a breath of fresh air to meet someone and be greeted pleasantly and warmly, to have someone wait for you to enter an elevator or through a door who will defer to you for seat and speak courteously at all times. I find that acting warmly and courteously to others generally is received well and returned in kind.

When my son graduated from Marine boot camp eight years ago, my mother, one of my brother's and his family and my family all went to be a part of the festivities. They are taught as part of their training proper etiquette. They offer their arm to the eldest unescorted female, adjust their gait to theirs, etc. I was most impressed and his grandmother was of course delighted with what a fine gentleman her oldest grandson was. :-). Outside they would stand to keep the sun off of the person they were escorting, etc. Little details.

Language however was not really on the list evidently. I made a playful comment about how wonderful it was that they had taught them all of these fine points, I thought they might have worked on his language too. He grinned his ornery grin and said oh mom I went to the wrong place for that. Sure enough shortly after we headed over to meet the Drill Instructors, I was coming up behind them and they didn't see me. They were carrying on quite a colorful conversation with each other. I cleared my throat, and as soon as they saw me, it was all apologies and buttoned up behavior. Made me grin, lol.

Apr 25th 2013 new

Hi Jerry,

I must say when ever I am with someone who is of the opposite sex, even a friend, they always open doors for me. I LOVE it and always say 'thank

you'. I will always let someone who is a senior go ahead of me at the grocery store--even if, she has more groceries than me and I try to always be of

help to help seniors in parking lots that are struggling with groceries, their wheelchair, whatever. I think it's the little things that make us holy. I know

you were talking about Chivalry but I do these things out of love. I always ask jesus to GIVE me opportunities to be holy. As I know they are

everywhere. Helping anyone out is kindness, chivalry (in some form ) and an act of holiness. Because for me, it's the little things I can get lazy about..

. So, when The Lord puts it in my path, although, I may not recognize it then but when I look back I KNOW it was giving me the opportunity to do a

holy act. Be it ever so small... So men, please don't EVER stop being the gentlemen you are. We LOVE it & appreciate it!!!!

Apr 25th 2013 new

Although Chivalry is not as common as it used to be, it does still exist. Last weekend I witnessed an older women trip in a restaurant. A stranger in his 30's jumped up from his table to help her up. At the gym I see men hold open doors for women. My brother-in-law opens car doors for the women in my family. The janitor at work always offers to carry boxes for all the teachers. This morning at Starbucks an gentleman held open the door for myself and a friend. There are many examples and if the chivalry was met with appreciate ( a simple thank you) I think it would occur more often.

Apr 25th 2013 new
(Quote) Jacqueline-198 said: Several months ago I was heading towards a Dunkin Donuts and a family was ahead of me, the littlest man of th...
(Quote) Jacqueline-198 said:

Several months ago I was heading towards a Dunkin Donuts and a family was ahead of me, the littlest man of the family, holds the big ole heavy door for me and said, 'go ahead ma'am' ok, here in NJ we don't hear ma'am that often and I had to thank him profusely and loudly and thanked his mom for a job well done, I also told him, 'please don't ever change' he was adorable!

--hide--


I love love it when a little guy shows such knightly qualities. faint Gives me hope for his generation. Praying
Apr 25th 2013 new

(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi Jerry,I must say when ever I am with someone who is of the opposite sex, even a fr...
(Quote) Elizabeth-726465 said:

Hi Jerry,

I must say when ever I am with someone who is of the opposite sex, even a friend, they always open doors for me. I LOVE it and always say 'thank

you'. I will always let someone who is a senior go ahead of me at the grocery store--even if, she has more groceries than me and I try to always be of

help to help seniors in parking lots that are struggling with groceries, their wheelchair, whatever. I think it's the little things that make us holy. I know

you were talking about Chivalry but I do these things out of love. I always ask jesus to GIVE me opportunities to be holy. As I know they are

everywhere. Helping anyone out is kindness, chivalry (in some form ) and an act of holiness. Because for me, it's the little things I can get lazy about..

. So, when The Lord puts it in my path, although, I may not recognize it then but when I look back I KNOW it was giving me the opportunity to do a

holy act. Be it ever so small... So men, please don't EVER stop being the gentlemen you are. We LOVE it & appreciate it!!!!

--hide--
You are right Elizabeth. It comes down to kindness.....which really I'm sure you and others would agree...is what our world needs more of. "Pay It Forward" is one of my favorite movies~

Apr 25th 2013 new

1. I like that quote. Sad, but very true.

2. I've always felt that opening the door for someone else -- regardless of whom -- is a form of self-abasement. "Your humble servant, Madam", so to speak, rather than a show of superiority.

Apr 25th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: When my son graduated from Marine boot camp eight years ago, my mother, one of my brother's ...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

When my son graduated from Marine boot camp eight years ago, my mother, one of my brother's and his family and my family all went to be a part of the festivities. They are taught as part of their training proper etiquette. They offer their arm to the eldest unescorted female, adjust their gait to theirs, etc. I was most impressed and his grandmother was of course delighted with what a fine gentleman her oldest grandson was. :-). Outside they would stand to keep the sun off of the person they were escorting, etc. Little details.

--hide--

I absolutely appreciate common courtesies extended from EITHER gender at ANY age. The younger the person extending it (a preteen holding the door for me) - the bigger the thank you and smile I give them. I also compliment their parent if they are nearby. The more their behavior is positively reinforced, hopefully the longer they will continue to extend it. crossfingers I find it sad that anyone would look upon these gracious behaviors as offensive. sad They are simple kindnesses everyone should extend to everyone else - anywhere and anytime IMO.

Lauren, I love the smaller details you mentioned above. Offering an arm and walking slowly with an older female is HUGE. My mother recently had this experience and she really beamed as she was escorted.

Gentlemen - on behalf of the women who truly DO appreciate chivalry - I thank you sincerely. hug heart Many of us really do notice even the smallest gesture - it can make our day. A door (car, building - either or both) held may get you noticed more than you realize, not only by the lady you are holding it for, but by others around her as well.

Apr 25th 2013 new

(Quote) Kristine-450998 said: Although Chivalry is not as common as it used to be, it does still exist. Last weekend I witne...
(Quote) Kristine-450998 said:

Although Chivalry is not as common as it used to be, it does still exist. Last weekend I witnessed an older women trip in a restaurant. A stranger in his 30's jumped up from his table to help her up. At the gym I see men hold open doors for women. My brother-in-law opens car doors for the women in my family. The janitor at work always offers to carry boxes for all the teachers. This morning at Starbucks an gentleman held open the door for myself and a friend. There are many examples and if the chivalry was met with appreciate ( a simple thank you) I think it would occur more often.

--hide--
Kristine the simple "thank you's" go a LONG way. That young man was very kind to do that...and probably didn't think much..it was just instinct. Before my room mates' dad passed away 3 years ago....Jim and I would pick him up from the nursing home he was living at and take him out for ice cream. He had Alzheimers among other health issues. Jim was such a good son. He was the only one of 4 who would DO for his father. Sometimes his dad would recognize him sometimes not. Same with me...because I have known the family 44 years. My first time I went...we got out at the ice cream parlor and Jim and I went around to the passenger side where his dad was sitting in the front seat. He grabbed his dad's arm to pull him out. I explained to Jim the maneuver doesn't work very well for the elderly...and given his own dad's condition..could even be worse. I said, "Just put your arm out.. Jim for HIM to GRAB YOU...like THIS as I showed him. (had lots of experience with my own parents) I know Mr "M" would have been proud of his son for helping. Bless his heart...he DID smile at Jim. Perhaps somewhere inside...he knew and was grateful. And even if he didn't recognize the gesture....God sure did!

Apr 25th 2013 new
Oh yes! Chivalry is not dead. It's rare, but not extinct. I don't think it is really endangered. I just think it is rare by nature. If it were extremely common we would not really be impressed by it, I think.

In my work, I meet a good number of people of all ages and cultures (I know, surprising since I am in KY-- go figure, the world comes here. It is that GOOD! laughing) I give tours to our properties. We go in and out of buildings all the time. I have learned that behavior towards others comes from attitude. I do get the doors held for me. I think it is because I expect that. I don't rush ahead, and my body language conveys that I am a lady who expects to be treated as such. Gentlemen, because I treat them as such (smile, call them "sir", dress appropriately, and give them opportunity to be chivalrous), respond with chivalrous actions. I do think I see this more from men younger than myself, though. And those older. My age bracket could use some work. Of course, my age bracket of women have done a number on them, as we refused to have the door held for us in our stupid college years. (hissyfit Oh the foolishness of youth! We did not know what gift we were snuffing out!! Please forgive us.)

But chivalry goes beyond holding doors. It means adjusting one's language to be more genteel in the presence of ladies. It means being willing to take personal risks to defend and protect women and children. (Men who are visibly active in the prolife movement are chivalrous, in my mind.) It means taking care of a woman's financial need. (An example of this is covering the meal tab, or helping to pay for gas when you are traveling with her. This is something that I have had some of my chivalrous male friends do for me.) It means leading spiritually-- directing the group to pray, setting a standard and direction of faith, remembering to put God first.

Chivalry isn't gone. It's just hidden. It's been so hidden that many people think it is mythical. Kind of adds to the romance of it, doesn't it, for those of us that know it? I am blessed to know some chivalry, and I crave more because it inspires me to be a lady. heart rose

Thank you, Sir Jerry! hug
Apr 25th 2013 new

(Quote) Mary-363093 said: I absolutely appreciate common courtesies extended from EITHER gender at ANY age. The you...
(Quote) Mary-363093 said:

I absolutely appreciate common courtesies extended from EITHER gender at ANY age. The younger the person extending it (a preteen holding the door for me) - the bigger the thank you and smile I give them. I also compliment their parent if they are nearby. The more their behavior is positively reinforced, hopefully the longer they will continue to extend it. I find it sad that anyone would look upon these gracious behaviors as offensive. They are simple kindnesses everyone should extend to everyone else - anywhere and anytime IMO.

Lauren, I love the smaller details you mentioned above. Offering an arm and walking slowly with an older female is HUGE. My mother recently had this experience and she really beamed as she was escorted.

Gentlemen - on behalf of the women who truly DO appreciate chivalry - I thank you sincerely. Many of us really do notice even the smallest gesture - it can make our day. A door (car, building - either or both) held may get you noticed more than you realize, not only by the lady you are holding it for, but by others around her as well.

--hide--
Well Mary....on behalf of all the guys...you are welcome! And here is a virtual hug

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