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A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Apr 29 new

sarin gas the person would have been dead. I saw sarin gas esposed to a dog when I was in the Army; movie of course

Apr 29 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: (Quote) Marianne-100218 said: Why would Obama want to go into Syria? <...
(Quote) John-220051 said:
Quote:
Marianne-100218 said:



Why would Obama want to go into Syria?




Our Catholic brethren are getting slaughtered in Syria.

This administration has let the Muslim Brotherhood legacy groups such as the Council on American Islamic Relations, Muslim Public Affairs Council and the Islamic Society of North America dictate his foreign policy in the Middle East.
--hide--



Hi John et alia,

Let us assume the worst, and the video shows the result of a sarin or other organophosphate poison gas attack. Let us also assume that Catholics or other Christians are being murdered in Syria. How do you justify the involvement of the American military in Syria? Do you really want the US involved in yet another war?

Has anyone here ever heard of Fox Connor? General Fox Connor? General Connor was a brilliant American military tactitian during World War I and afterwards. Connor was the mentor of Generals Patton, Eisenhower, and Marshall. He lost out to becoming Chief of Staff to MacArthur in the 1930s. General Connor had 3 basic axioms to fighting:

1. Never fight alone.
2. Never fight for long.
3. Never fight unless you have to.

True, we're not exactly fighting alone, but does anyone think the support has been proportionate to the effort spent by the United States? Yes, there was a rationale for going into Afghanistan, but anywhere else? Not bloody likely. And long? Heck, from soup to nuts, we've been fighting in the Middle East since 1990. The Middle East has become a vast sinkhole for America, and to a lesser extent, Europe.

So, I say leave Syria alone.

James ☺

Apr 29 new

(Quote) James-17080 said: Hi John et alia,Let us assume the worst, and the video shows the result of a s...
(Quote) James-17080 said:




Hi John et alia,

Let us assume the worst, and the video shows the result of a sarin or other organophosphate poison gas attack. Let us also assume that Catholics or other Christians are being murdered in Syria. How do you justify the involvement of the American military in Syria? Do you really want the US involved in yet another war?

Has anyone here ever heard of Fox Connor? General Fox Connor? General Connor was a brilliant American military tactitian during World War I and afterwards. Connor was the mentor of Generals Patton, Eisenhower, and Marshall. He lost out to becoming Chief of Staff to MacArthur in the 1930s. General Connor had 3 basic axioms to fighting:

1. Never fight alone.
2. Never fight for long.
3. Never fight unless you have to.

True, we're not exactly fighting alone, but does anyone think the support has been proportionate to the effort spent by the United States? Yes, there was a rationale for going into Afghanistan, but anywhere else? Not bloody likely. And long? Heck, from soup to nuts, we've been fighting in the Middle East since 1990. The Middle East has become a vast sinkhole for America, and to a lesser extent, Europe.

So, I say leave Syria alone.

James ☺

--hide--


We might already be involved with Syria. I hope not.

Apr 29 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: sarin gas the person would have been dead. I saw sarin gas esposed to a dog when I was in the Army...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

sarin gas the person would have been dead. I saw sarin gas esposed to a dog when I was in the Army; movie of course

--hide--


It really looks fake anyway, and they are no where near dead.

Apr 30 new
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said: We might already be involved with Syria. I hope not.
(Quote) Marianne-100218 said:



We might already be involved with Syria. I hope not.

--hide--


News reports say the Obama administration is secretly arming the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaida-linked rebels.
Apr 30 new
The Melkite Catholic patriarch of Antioch penned the following appeal last July. We should listen to him.

Dear friends,

1. The greatest danger in Syria at present is anarchy, lack of security and the massive influx of weapons from all sides. Violence is, alas, the dominant language today and violence begets violence. In Syria, this danger is ensnaring and affecting all citizens, regardless of race, religion or political persuasion.

2. Christians, too, are exposed to this same danger, but they are the weak link. Defenceless, they are the group most liable to exploitation, extortion, kidnapping, torture and even elimination. But they are also the peace-making, unarmed group, calling for dialogue, reconciliation, peace and unity among all the sons and daughters of the same homeland. This is the rarest kind of talk that many do not wish to hear. We Christians, to whom was entrusted the Gospel of Peace, feel ourselves called to further it.

3. Nevertheless, there is no Muslim-Christian conflict. Christians are not targeted as such, but can be reckoned among the victims of chaos and lack of security.

4. The greatest danger is interference from Arab or Western foreign elements. This interference takes the form of weapons, money and one-sided, programmed, subversive means of communication.

5. Such interference is harmful even to what is called the opposition. It is injurious to the just claims that are expressed more or less everywhere. This interference harms national unity at home by mixing up the cards.

6. This interference also weakens the specifically Christian voice of moderation and more particularly, the voice of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria. Local Churches have made their voices heard on several occasions and the declarations of the heads of the Christian Churches are characterised by moderation and the call for reform, freedom and democracy and for fighting corruption, supporting development and freedom of speech and the promotion of dialogue.

7. Nowhere in these declarations is there any allusion to the persecution of Christians, who, as we have seen, are not targeted as such. Neither is there any allusion to concepts of Muslims, Salafists, fundamentalists, opponents, fear, regime or Party. The declarations called for more dialogue and more reforms and participation in parliamentary parties and elections.

8. The language of the declarations was always positive, peaceable, calling for love and dialogue and rejecting resorting to arms. It advocated protecting defenceless citizens and not involving civilians in fighting. In short, the declarations are very remote from extremism of any kind. Though civic, they are in no way against such and such a group, either at home or abroad.

9. I dont know what the reason is for the campaign against the leaders of the Churches in Syria and against their standpoints. I wonder from where come the labels that are stuck on them of compromise, exploitation and collusion with the regime, of time-serving, servitude or laziness?

10. It should be known that the State and its leaders have never addressed to Church leaders any directive or inducement to make a statement or adopt a particular position. The freedom of Church leaders was everywhere assured and still is to this day, whether in their behaviour or their private or public statements. In March 2012, I made a personal tour of European capitals. I asked no permission or guidance from anybody and no-one asked me to adopt any particular stance. I outlined that in a paper that summarised most of my convictions with regard to the situation prevailing in Syria.

11. It is possible for everyone to see the papers Ive published with successive calls for fasting, prayer, dialogue, reconciliation, rejection of violence and avoiding resorting to armsThere are also the statements of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria and the declarations of the three Patriarchs whose patriarchal headquarters are in Syria: namely the Greek Orthodox, the Syriac Orthodox and the Greek Catholic Patriarchs (cf. www.pgc-lb.org.

12. These leaders and the communiqus that they have published are the official voice of the Churches in Syria. Further, as Patriarch and President of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria, I call upon everyone to consider this voice as the authoritative stance of the Church in Syria. We allow no-one to speak in our name or in the name of Syrias Christians, mar our statements or label us with charges of any kind whatever.

13. Similarly, it is subversive to doubt the credibility of the Churchs leaders or their transparency, fidelity and objectivity, the veracity of their sources of information or the news that they broadcast. The Church leaders dont rely on the media, but they are in continual contact with their priests, monks and nuns and lay-people and all other citizens. They are leaders who look after the concerns of the Christian faithful and are also in contact with citizens of all denominations and with well-known leading members of the country. In all these situations they are free in their behaviour, movements and statements. They always call for mutual edification, dialogue and solidarity among all.

14. On the other hand, we think that the attitudes of certain persons and particular institutions, and the press campaign, are harming Christians in Syria and exposing them to danger, kidnapping, exploitation and even death. These attitudes heap false accusations on Christians, sowing doubt in their hearts and spreading fear and isolation. As a result, they help their exodus both inside the country and abroad

15. These very attitudes claiming inopportunely to be interested in Christians can increase the radicalism of certain armed factions against Christians. They exacerbate relations between citizens, especially between Christian and Muslim citizens, as was the case in Homs, Qusayr, Yabrud and Dmeineh Sharqieh, etc

16. That is why we are inviting these institutions and persons to concern themselves rather with civil peace in Syria. Let them support the call for dialogue and reconciliation, and the rejection of violence. Let them work to preserve the security of defenceless civilians in the current conflict, so as not to expose them to danger, lest they become the target of attacks of one faction or anotherand so succumb, as victims of anarchy, insecurity, terrorism, exploitation, kidnapping and liquidation, as we mentioned above.

17. These reflections and observations spring from our Christian faith and patriotic convictions together with our knowledge of our Christian history and Syrian heritage, particularly with regard to living together, openness and mutual respect, despite the difficult period which our country is going through, during which relations between civilians have been abused, whether they are Christian, Muslim or other.

18. Our positions and reflections spring from our conviction that, despite the abundant bloodshed and hatred that have been shown, with feelings of enmity and rancour, Syrians, because of their long history, remain experts in living together and can resolve this dangerous crisis, unique in their history, helping one another, loving each other and forgiving and working together for the common future.

19. We also put a lot of hope in the initiatives of civil society to strengthen love and links among Syrians whom the conflict threatens to destroy. We pray for the success of the Mussalaha (reconciliation) movement in which delegates from all Churches are active alongside members of other denominations. This represents a foundation for effective resolution of the tragic events.

20. Similarly, we believe, hope and expect the Ministry of Reconciliation, created especially for the Mussalaha movement, to succeed in its mission of bringing back unity and love to the hearts of all: it prepares the way to resolve the conflict. We place a lot of hope in the creation of the new Ministry of Reconciliation.

21. Naturally, we are still calling once more for the rejection of violence and for stopping the cycle of killings and destruction, especially of destitute civilians, who are really defenceless victims, whether they are Christian or Muslim.

22. We should like to state truly and frankly that our position as Christians stems from the fact that we are Christian citizens in a secular society. The so-called prerogatives supposedly enjoyed by Christians in Syria are only the universal rights of all Syrian citizens regardless of the denomination or faith to which they belong. There is an historical basis for that in the confessional millet system dating back to the time of Ottoman rule. The Patriarch was then head of his Church in both the religious and secular sense. The business of private Church jurisprudence developed during the French protectorate, then under successive Syrian governments up to the present one, so the assertion that the status of Christians is the fruit of their adherence to the regime and will fall with it is absolutely false!

23. The Islamic world needs the Christian presence alongside it, with it and for it, in liaison and interaction, as was the case historically. This presence will and must continue. I say that Islam needs Christianity and that Muslims need Christians and we shall stay with them and for them as we have done in the past and throughout 1433 (Islamic) years of common history.1

APPEAL

24. To conclude: As Christians we address our big appeal to the Arab world to call it to unity: the division of the Arab world has always been the major target at home and abroad. This division is the reason for the dangers that are lying in wait for the region and is the cause of the absence of a just and comprehensive solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This conflict is the basis and primordial cause of the majority of misfortunes, crises and wars in the Arab world. This conflict, according to the testimony of His Holiness the Pope, of many churchmen, Apostolic Nuncios, and even of Jewish Israeli politicians, is the primordial cause of the Christian exodus. Yes, the division of the Arab world, according to the testimony of the persons cited above, has been hindering a solution to this conflict for sixty-four years! (cf. the opinion of Tzipi Livni2 in The Financial Times 13/07/2012).

Peace lies in the unity of the Arab world and the safety of Christians can only be assured by the unity of the Arab world, from which flow the circumstances favourable to living together and Muslim-Christian and inter-Muslim dialogue. The greatest danger in this field affects Islam itself when it is divided along the fracture lines of the Arab world, evidence for that being the Sunni-Shiite conflict. This phenomenon is more dangerous than the danger that Christians or other denominations are incurring in Syria and the region.

Crises and wars are the cause of the exodus of Christians and the cause of the deterioration of Muslim-Christian relations.

Europeans, take an interest in the unity of the Arab world, if you want to help Christians.

Europeans, solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, if you want to help Christians.

Europeans, work for peace in the Middle East, if you want to help Christians.

Our common destiny for us all, Arab Christians and Muslimsis the same. Dont cut us off from our Arab community environment, nor from our Muslim community environment.

Help us to play our role and fulfil our mission in the Arab world so that we can be present in it, with it and for itand there be as light, salt and leaven.

Take an interest in us in and because of our community environment. In your analyses dont make us out to be intruders in our Arab Muslim-Christian world, nor agents in it, dhimmis protected by you or others than you.

Help us to be Christians of the Church of the Arabs and Church of Islam.

Europeans: dont hide your interests behind your zeal for Christians!

We invite our brothers and sisters in the Arab East and in Europe and everywhere else, states, religious or humanitarian institutions to help us in this unity undertaking and we say: One united Arab voice and one united Western voice can return security and safety to Syria and all the Middle East, as we walk together towards a better future. Thank you in advance to all who will respond to this call.

We need the unique role of the Pope and the Vatican and hope that the visit of the Pope to Lebanon next September will be a support for these reflections that Ive drafted on the situation in the Arab world and more precisely in Syria.

May the Lord of history grant us his Holy Spirit to guide us on the paths of good! Amen.

+Gregorios III (Laham)

Melkite Greek Catholic

Patriarch Of Antioch and All the East,

Of Alexandria and of Jerusalem
Apr 30 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: News reports say the Obama administration is secretly arming the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaida-...
(Quote) John-220051 said:

News reports say the Obama administration is secretly arming the Muslim Brotherhood and al-Qaida-linked rebels.
--hide--


John: Have you heard that the consulate at Benghazi was not a consulate at all but a procurement center.
It was used to buy weapons to send to Turkey and then to arm the rebels in Syria. The Muslim Brotherhood is
probably who ultimately got the weapons. Does that sound right to you?

Apr 30 new

(Quote) John-220051 said: The Melkite Catholic patriarch of Antioch penned the following appeal last July. We should listen to him....
(Quote) John-220051 said: The Melkite Catholic patriarch of Antioch penned the following appeal last July. We should listen to him.

Dear friends,

1. The greatest danger in Syria at present is anarchy, lack of security and the massive influx of weapons from all sides. Violence is, alas, the dominant language today and violence begets violence. In Syria, this danger is ensnaring and affecting all citizens, regardless of race, religion or political persuasion.

2. Christians, too, are exposed to this same danger, but they are the weak link. Defenceless, they are the group most liable to exploitation, extortion, kidnapping, torture and even elimination. But they are also the peace-making, unarmed group, calling for dialogue, reconciliation, peace and unity among all the sons and daughters of the same homeland. This is the rarest kind of talk that many do not wish to hear. We Christians, to whom was entrusted the Gospel of Peace, feel ourselves called to further it.

3. Nevertheless, there is no Muslim-Christian conflict. Christians are not targeted as such, but can be reckoned among the victims of chaos and lack of security.

4. The greatest danger is interference from Arab or Western foreign elements. This interference takes the form of weapons, money and one-sided, programmed, subversive means of communication.

5. Such interference is harmful even to what is called the opposition. It is injurious to the just claims that are expressed more or less everywhere. This interference harms national unity at home by mixing up the cards.

6. This interference also weakens the specifically Christian voice of moderation and more particularly, the voice of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria. Local Churches have made their voices heard on several occasions and the declarations of the heads of the Christian Churches are characterised by moderation and the call for reform, freedom and democracy and for fighting corruption, supporting development and freedom of speech and the promotion of dialogue.

7. Nowhere in these declarations is there any allusion to the persecution of Christians, who, as we have seen, are not targeted as such. Neither is there any allusion to concepts of Muslims, Salafists, fundamentalists, opponents, fear, regime or Party. The declarations called for more dialogue and more reforms and participation in parliamentary parties and elections.

8. The language of the declarations was always positive, peaceable, calling for love and dialogue and rejecting resorting to arms. It advocated protecting defenceless citizens and not involving civilians in fighting. In short, the declarations are very remote from extremism of any kind. Though civic, they are in no way against such and such a group, either at home or abroad.

9. I dont know what the reason is for the campaign against the leaders of the Churches in Syria and against their standpoints. I wonder from where come the labels that are stuck on them of compromise, exploitation and collusion with the regime, of time-serving, servitude or laziness?

10. It should be known that the State and its leaders have never addressed to Church leaders any directive or inducement to make a statement or adopt a particular position. The freedom of Church leaders was everywhere assured and still is to this day, whether in their behaviour or their private or public statements. In March 2012, I made a personal tour of European capitals. I asked no permission or guidance from anybody and no-one asked me to adopt any particular stance. I outlined that in a paper that summarised most of my convictions with regard to the situation prevailing in Syria.

11. It is possible for everyone to see the papers Ive published with successive calls for fasting, prayer, dialogue, reconciliation, rejection of violence and avoiding resorting to armsThere are also the statements of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria and the declarations of the three Patriarchs whose patriarchal headquarters are in Syria: namely the Greek Orthodox, the Syriac Orthodox and the Greek Catholic Patriarchs (cf. www.pgc-lb.org.

12. These leaders and the communiqus that they have published are the official voice of the Churches in Syria. Further, as Patriarch and President of the Assembly of Catholic Hierarchs in Syria, I call upon everyone to consider this voice as the authoritative stance of the Church in Syria. We allow no-one to speak in our name or in the name of Syrias Christians, mar our statements or label us with charges of any kind whatever.

13. Similarly, it is subversive to doubt the credibility of the Churchs leaders or their transparency, fidelity and objectivity, the veracity of their sources of information or the news that they broadcast. The Church leaders dont rely on the media, but they are in continual contact with their priests, monks and nuns and lay-people and all other citizens. They are leaders who look after the concerns of the Christian faithful and are also in contact with citizens of all denominations and with well-known leading members of the country. In all these situations they are free in their behaviour, movements and statements. They always call for mutual edification, dialogue and solidarity among all.

14. On the other hand, we think that the attitudes of certain persons and particular institutions, and the press campaign, are harming Christians in Syria and exposing them to danger, kidnapping, exploitation and even death. These attitudes heap false accusations on Christians, sowing doubt in their hearts and spreading fear and isolation. As a result, they help their exodus both inside the country and abroad

15. These very attitudes claiming inopportunely to be interested in Christians can increase the radicalism of certain armed factions against Christians. They exacerbate relations between citizens, especially between Christian and Muslim citizens, as was the case in Homs, Qusayr, Yabrud and Dmeineh Sharqieh, etc

16. That is why we are inviting these institutions and persons to concern themselves rather with civil peace in Syria. Let them support the call for dialogue and reconciliation, and the rejection of violence. Let them work to preserve the security of defenceless civilians in the current conflict, so as not to expose them to danger, lest they become the target of attacks of one faction or anotherand so succumb, as victims of anarchy, insecurity, terrorism, exploitation, kidnapping and liquidation, as we mentioned above.

17. These reflections and observations spring from our Christian faith and patriotic convictions together with our knowledge of our Christian history and Syrian heritage, particularly with regard to living together, openness and mutual respect, despite the difficult period which our country is going through, during which relations between civilians have been abused, whether they are Christian, Muslim or other.

18. Our positions and reflections spring from our conviction that, despite the abundant bloodshed and hatred that have been shown, with feelings of enmity and rancour, Syrians, because of their long history, remain experts in living together and can resolve this dangerous crisis, unique in their history, helping one another, loving each other and forgiving and working together for the common future.

19. We also put a lot of hope in the initiatives of civil society to strengthen love and links among Syrians whom the conflict threatens to destroy. We pray for the success of the Mussalaha (reconciliation) movement in which delegates from all Churches are active alongside members of other denominations. This represents a foundation for effective resolution of the tragic events.

20. Similarly, we believe, hope and expect the Ministry of Reconciliation, created especially for the Mussalaha movement, to succeed in its mission of bringing back unity and love to the hearts of all: it prepares the way to resolve the conflict. We place a lot of hope in the creation of the new Ministry of Reconciliation.

21. Naturally, we are still calling once more for the rejection of violence and for stopping the cycle of killings and destruction, especially of destitute civilians, who are really defenceless victims, whether they are Christian or Muslim.

22. We should like to state truly and frankly that our position as Christians stems from the fact that we are Christian citizens in a secular society. The so-called prerogatives supposedly enjoyed by Christians in Syria are only the universal rights of all Syrian citizens regardless of the denomination or faith to which they belong. There is an historical basis for that in the confessional millet system dating back to the time of Ottoman rule. The Patriarch was then head of his Church in both the religious and secular sense. The business of private Church jurisprudence developed during the French protectorate, then under successive Syrian governments up to the present one, so the assertion that the status of Christians is the fruit of their adherence to the regime and will fall with it is absolutely false!

23. The Islamic world needs the Christian presence alongside it, with it and for it, in liaison and interaction, as was the case historically. This presence will and must continue. I say that Islam needs Christianity and that Muslims need Christians and we shall stay with them and for them as we have done in the past and throughout 1433 (Islamic) years of common history.1

APPEAL

24. To conclude: As Christians we address our big appeal to the Arab world to call it to unity: the division of the Arab world has always been the major target at home and abroad. This division is the reason for the dangers that are lying in wait for the region and is the cause of the absence of a just and comprehensive solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This conflict is the basis and primordial cause of the majority of misfortunes, crises and wars in the Arab world. This conflict, according to the testimony of His Holiness the Pope, of many churchmen, Apostolic Nuncios, and even of Jewish Israeli politicians, is the primordial cause of the Christian exodus. Yes, the division of the Arab world, according to the testimony of the persons cited above, has been hindering a solution to this conflict for sixty-four years! (cf. the opinion of Tzipi Livni2 in The Financial Times 13/07/2012).

Peace lies in the unity of the Arab world and the safety of Christians can only be assured by the unity of the Arab world, from which flow the circumstances favourable to living together and Muslim-Christian and inter-Muslim dialogue. The greatest danger in this field affects Islam itself when it is divided along the fracture lines of the Arab world, evidence for that being the Sunni-Shiite conflict. This phenomenon is more dangerous than the danger that Christians or other denominations are incurring in Syria and the region.

Crises and wars are the cause of the exodus of Christians and the cause of the deterioration of Muslim-Christian relations.

Europeans, take an interest in the unity of the Arab world, if you want to help Christians.

Europeans, solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, if you want to help Christians.

Europeans, work for peace in the Middle East, if you want to help Christians.

Our common destiny for us all, Arab Christians and Muslimsis the same. Dont cut us off from our Arab community environment, nor from our Muslim community environment.

Help us to play our role and fulfil our mission in the Arab world so that we can be present in it, with it and for itand there be as light, salt and leaven.

Take an interest in us in and because of our community environment. In your analyses dont make us out to be intruders in our Arab Muslim-Christian world, nor agents in it, dhimmis protected by you or others than you.

Help us to be Christians of the Church of the Arabs and Church of Islam.

Europeans: dont hide your interests behind your zeal for Christians!

We invite our brothers and sisters in the Arab East and in Europe and everywhere else, states, religious or humanitarian institutions to help us in this unity undertaking and we say: One united Arab voice and one united Western voice can return security and safety to Syria and all the Middle East, as we walk together towards a better future. Thank you in advance to all who will respond to this call.

We need the unique role of the Pope and the Vatican and hope that the visit of the Pope to Lebanon next September will be a support for these reflections that Ive drafted on the situation in the Arab world and more precisely in Syria.

May the Lord of history grant us his Holy Spirit to guide us on the paths of good! Amen.

+Gregorios III (Laham)

Melkite Greek Catholic

Patriarch Of Antioch and All the East,

Of Alexandria and of Jerusalem
--hide--


John: This seems to be a plea that the Catholics are not being targeted, but it really is not dealing with the facts of
a worn-torn country in shambles. Everyone is going to go down with the ship. Who knows what will happen in that
area?

Catholics should leave Syria temporarily and let the fighters finish whatever they are doing. It is not safe there
for anyone.

Apr 30 new

(Quote) Steven-706921 said: As Fox News already reported, Obama admits his line was crossed...so he redrew it. ...
(Quote) Steven-706921 said:

As Fox News already reported, Obama admits his line was crossed...so he redrew it.

--hide--



A timely cartoon!!



click on image to makeit bigger.

May 07 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: sarin gas the person would have been dead. I saw sarin gas esposed to a dog when I was in the Army...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

sarin gas the person would have been dead. I saw sarin gas esposed to a dog when I was in the Army; movie of course

--hide--

Not necessarily. If treatment can arrive in time, the effects can be stopped and lives saved. Atropine is the common drug indicated.

en.wikipedia.org

BTW, the Obama administration turned out to be correct in not declaring the "red line" crossed. Officials investigating the incident from the U.N. have testimony that the attack was launched by our new best friends the Syrian rebels.

They may be Jihadi fighters but they're not terrorists; they're freedom fighters. Sure a funny word for this:

www.chicagotribune.com

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