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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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Apr 27th 2013 new

Duly noted, last rites must be administered to a person while still alive. As a Catholic, I also find what happened unacceptable, but it happened in a crisis situation, where perhaps human judgment was imperfect.

Those in uniform on the scene also ordered an off-duty firefighter to leave. That decision makes no sense to me either. He ended up at the nearby church to pray.

The fact that no one with the Boston Police Department responded to the reporter's request for comment on its policy regarding clergy at the scenes of emergencies leads me to believe that it was not official policy but flawed human judgment that resulted in the priest being ordered to leave. If it was policy, somebody would have replied to the reporter. Noting that this is speculative, the cause of the flawed judgment could have been anything from inexperience to ignorance.

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Mary-486033 said: Being that unidentified strangers were assisting/administering to victims, I don't find any justifica...
(Quote) Mary-486033 said: Being that unidentified strangers were assisting/administering to victims, I don't find any justification for them to block priests. I suspect most priests carry identification in their wallets, anyway. I highly doubt security stopped anyone from jumping into action where seconds count to apply tourniquets or life-saving first aid at the scene.
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Where these unidentified strangers allowed to cross the security perimeter to access the victims, as was the case with the priests? Or were thery already tending to the victims when the security perimeter was established?

As the WSJ article noted:

(a) In this day and age identification cards are easy to forge.

(b) An off-duty Boston firefighter who was assisting a victim was made to leave the scene.

Apr 27th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Where these unidentified strangers allowed to cross the security perimeter to access the victims...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:



Where these unidentified strangers allowed to cross the security perimeter to access the victims, as was the case with the priests? Or were thery already tending to the victims when the security perimeter was established?



As the WSJ article noted:



(a) In this day and age identification cards are easy to forge.



(b) An off-duty Boston firefighter who was assisting a victim was made to leave the scene.



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The accounts I've heard pertain to those attending the event or at nearby businesses at the time of the blast. I don't know where the cut off was for this particular security reference nor where all those who assisted stood in relation thereof. Certainly some of the accounts I've heard place those who assisted within close perimeter.

Wonder why the Boston firefighter would be singled out and told to leave, yet other off-duty responders were not.

While concerns about validating ID are appreciated and expected, I believe police have their ways to reasonably and quickly weed out a fake id....if they wanted to. Photo driver licenses now have state-of-the-art security features. www.dmv.state.pa.us
Apr 27th 2013 new
This is a good reminder for all of us to carry an "I am Catholic ID Card".

www.leafletonline.com
Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Angela-374523 said: Duly noted, last rites must be administered to a person while still alive. As a Catholic, I also...
(Quote) Angela-374523 said:

Duly noted, last rites must be administered to a person while still alive. As a Catholic, I also find what happened unacceptable, but it happened in a crisis situation, where perhaps human judgment was imperfect.

Those in uniform on the scene also ordered an off-duty firefighter to leave. That decision makes no sense to me either. He ended up at the nearby church to pray.

The fact that no one with the Boston Police Department responded to the reporter's request for comment on its policy regarding clergy at the scenes of emergencies leads me to believe that it was not official policy but flawed human judgment that resulted in the priest being ordered to leave. If it was policy, somebody would have replied to the reporter. Noting that this is speculative, the cause of the flawed judgment could have been anything from inexperience to ignorance.

--hide--


I should point out (and not to nit-pick) that Last Rites can actually be administered for a certain period of time after a person has been declared dead (2-3 hours, I believe). The Church does not take the position that the soul leaves the body at the exact moment of medical death, and makes an allowance for the possibility that the soul is still with the deceased.

What's important to know about Last Rites is that they should not wait until the last moment. People in dying states have actually undergone reversals due to Last Rites. It should not only been seen as a sacrament to be administered as a "seeing-off" of the dying, but as one that could interrupt the process if God willed it.

When I first started working in NYC I was talking to a local priest whose picture I had seen in one of the NY dailies. Someone had died on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange, and someone else on the floor had the presence of mind to call the local parish and request a priest after medical help had been summoned. He had rushed up the street with his kit, and was photographed while waiting to be ushered into the building. He said it was not uncommon in NYC years ago to have a police car pull up in front of the rectory in the middle of the night and rush a priest off to either a crime scene or a hospital. A cop had been shot, and there were enough Catholics in the NYPD to know to get a priest ASAP.

I still find it hard to believe that a cop in Boston (BOSTON!) would have kept a priest on the other side of the tape while some kid was dying in the street.

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Mary-486033 said: This is a good reminder for all of us to carry an "I am Catholic ID Card". http://www.l...
(Quote) Mary-486033 said: This is a good reminder for all of us to carry an "I am Catholic ID Card".

www.leafletonline.com
--hide--



That's a good idea, Mary. I have this as one of my notes in my cell phone as well.

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: I should point out (and not to nit-pick) that Last Rites can actually be administered f...
(Quote) William-607613 said:



I should point out (and not to nit-pick) that Last Rites can actually be administered for a certain period of time after a person has been declared dead (2-3 hours, I believe). The Church does not take the position that the soul leaves the body at the exact moment of medical death, and makes an allowance for the possibility that the soul is still with the deceased.

What's important to know about Last Rites is that they should not wait until the last moment. People in dying states have actually undergone reversals due to Last Rites. It should not only been seen as a sacrament to be administered as a "seeing-off" of the dying, but as one that could interrupt the process if God willed it.

When I first started working in NYC I was talking to a local priest whose picture I had seen in one of the NY dailies. Someone had died on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange, and someone else on the floor had the presence of mind to call the local parish and request a priest after medical help had been summoned. He had rushed up the street with his kit, and was photographed while waiting to be ushered into the building. He said it was not uncommon in NYC years ago to have a police car pull up in front of the rectory in the middle of the night and rush a priest off to either a crime scene or a hospital. A cop had been shot, and there were enough Catholics in the NYPD to know to get a priest ASAP.

I still find it hard to believe that a cop in Boston (BOSTON!) would have kept a priest on the other side of the tape while some kid was dying in the street.

--hide--
This is true, this happened in the case of my mother, who was dying in my ams out in public, we got her to the hospital and she was pronounced DOA. However, I asked the ER nurse to call a priest and he was there within minutes and blessed her and performed the last rites as well. He was gracious and sweet and it was about 10:30P.M. and said he was in bed already. Thank God we have these priests.

sad I am sorry for all those denied the rites of the priest, at the bombing.

Apr 27th 2013 new

Personal Opine on Death and last rites: Jesus can bring back any soul to physical life if God wills it, and last rites by a priest, a holy instrument, can be a window, no matter how long a person is clinically dead. Yes, thank God we have these wonderful servants as priests.

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) Dan-28682 said: www.catholicculture.org Sad, very sad...
(Quote) Dan-28682 said:

www.catholicculture.org

Sad, very sad...

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Well, as has been reported, the eight year old child was still alive, but dying, and was denied the Last Rites though the priest was a mere yards away.

thepittsfordperennialist.blogspot.com

Boston apparently wants you to die unprovided. Add that to the police state lockdown on Friday where homeowners were dragged out of their houses without warrents, and you have to admit Lew Rockwell has a point.

"[t]he empire has invaded the homeland--the chickens have come home to roost, as Malcolm X put it--with more than a million people ordered to cower in their homes"

www.lewrockwell.com

Apr 27th 2013 new

(Quote) William-607613 said: I should point out (and not to nit-pick) that Last Rites can actually be administered for a cer...
(Quote) William-607613 said:

I should point out (and not to nit-pick) that Last Rites can actually be administered for a certain period of time after a person has been declared dead (2-3 hours, I believe). The Church does not take the position that the soul leaves the body at the exact moment of medical death, and makes an allowance for the possibility that the soul is still with the deceased.

What's important to know about Last Rites is that they should not wait until the last moment. People in dying states have actually undergone reversals due to Last Rites. It should not only been seen as a sacrament to be administered as a "seeing-off" of the dying, but as one that could interrupt the process if God willed it.

When I first started working in NYC I was talking to a local priest whose picture I had seen in one of the NY dailies. Someone had died on the floor of the NY Stock Exchange, and someone else on the floor had the presence of mind to call the local parish and request a priest after medical help had been summoned. He had rushed up the street with his kit, and was photographed while waiting to be ushered into the building. He said it was not uncommon in NYC years ago to have a police car pull up in front of the rectory in the middle of the night and rush a priest off to either a crime scene or a hospital. A cop had been shot, and there were enough Catholics in the NYPD to know to get a priest ASAP.

I still find it hard to believe that a cop in Boston (BOSTON!) would have kept a priest on the other side of the tape while some kid was dying in the street.

--hide--


Actually, I think the sacrament is called "Anointing of the Sick" and can be administered to anyone who has a serious illness or injury. Per the catechism...

"The Anointing of the Sick "is not a sacrament for those only who are at the point of death. Hence, as soon as anyone of the faithful begins to be in danger of death from sickness or old age, the fitting time for him to receive this sacrament has certainly already arrived."130

If a sick person who received this anointing recovers his health, he can in the case of another grave illness receive this sacrament again. If during the same illness the person's condition becomes more serious, the sacrament may be repeated. It is fitting to receive the Anointing of the Sick just prior to a serious operation. The same holds for the elderly whose frailty becomes more pronounced."

Many parishes have regular services where they provide this sacrament to the sick and the elderly. I have heard that it is even appropriate if you are to receive a general anasthesia for a surgery or other medical procedure.




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