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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Apr 29th 2013 new

APOSTOLIC LETTER
ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON RESERVING PRIESTLY ORDINATION
TO MEN ALONE

www.vatican.va


Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or perf...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or performed functions that must be performed by ordained ministers. They assisted with baptisms of adult females and things of that nature to preserve modesty.

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I agree but in the Eastern Church in the the early years there were Deaconess. Not in the the same sense that Deacons are considered today. that is why i say maybe there is an opening for women deacons today. I agree about the preisthood.

Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: I agree but in the Eastern Church in the the early years there were Deaconess. Not in the ...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

I agree but in the Eastern Church in the the early years there were Deaconess. Not in the the same sense that Deacons are considered today. that is why i say maybe there is an opening for women deacons today. I agree about the preisthood.

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Nor in the same sense that deacons were considered then. The similarity extended only as far as the name.

Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or perf...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or performed functions that must be performed by ordained ministers. They assisted with baptisms of adult females and things of that nature to preserve modesty.

--hide--
I also agree but all I am saying in light of eastern tradition and history that women deacons could be possible.

Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: I also agree but all I am saying in light of eastern tradition and history that women deacons coul...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

I also agree but all I am saying in light of eastern tradition and history that women deacons could be possible.

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Exactly what "eastern tradition" are you referring to?

Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: I agree but in the Eastern Church in the the early years there were Deaconess. Not in the the same...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

I agree but in the Eastern Church in the the early years there were Deaconess. Not in the the same sense that Deacons are considered today. that is why i say maybe there is an opening for women deacons today. I agree about the preisthood.

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The conclusion of Catholic theologians is that a deaconess was not a female deacon.

Apr 29th 2013 new

In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed the Catechumens. I still say there is nothing in Scipture or tradiition that excludes women from the Deacon. For sure the priesthood.

Apr 29th 2013 new
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: http://news.yahoo.com/kentucky-woman-ordained-priest-defiance-roman-catholic-church-005633378.html
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

news.yahoo.com




Help me answer my friends who think this is a great thing, please.




So far they have posted:
1. Good for her. Follow your bliss, people.
2. Actually, many religions are catholic, and are Catholic in their proper names. The word means "universal." If Rosemarie Smead has indeed been ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, it is unprecedented as the Roman Catholic church has, to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge, not ordained a woman as a priest before. I am not sure what basic tenets she rejects, but surely those subjecting women to inferior status would have to be one of them.
3. According to the article, she still identifies as Catholic. Clearly, the group is a splinter group, and not sanctioned by the mainstream powers that be, but presumably they still follow many practices. They have emerged from the Catholic tradition, and are taking it in a new direction even as they continue to identify themselves with that tradition. It's not my label. Cathy and others (dissdots esp) wasn't there another group a few years back who did a similar ordination?? I seem to remember that there was, but I don't recall any details. I'm a curious bystander, not a Catholic or former Catholic.
4. and, keep in mind that the "tenets" of the faith were all decided solely by men, as if God doesn't speak to women at all.

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So, they have left the Roman Catholic Church, and have started their own. They are no longer Roman Catholic, under the Pope.

They have turned their backs in defiance on the Church.

It is best not to attend their church, it's not in the eyes of the Holy See.

I guess now there is another denomination started.
Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instru...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed the Catechumens. I still say there is nothing in Scipture or tradiition that excludes women from the Deacon. For sure the priesthood.

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Every one of these can be performed by laity, therefore there is nothing in this tradition as described here to suggest women can be ordained as deacons.

The thing in Scripture and tradition that excludes women from the ordained diaconate is that fact that there is absolutely no evidence of them having been ordained despite, as you have noted, having worked very closely with the priests and deacons.

Keep in mind that deacons receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, as do priests. It makes no sense that women could validly receive one form of the sacrament but not the other.

Apr 29th 2013 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: there are mentions in the new testaments about Deaconess
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

there are mentions in the new testaments about Deaconess

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That was in reference to the unmarried or widowed women like Anna who prayed and helped out at the church. They may have formed a kind of community- like a 3rd order, but it was never considered what we now call the step just below the priesthood: Deacon.

The biggest problem with modern languages is the meanings change... look at: "Woman, what does that have to do with me and with thee?" It sounds disrespectful...I would never call my mother "woman", but the word Our Lord actually used would be better translated as a *respectful* "lady"-type title title.

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