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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Apr 29 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed t...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed the Catechumens. I still say there is nothing in Scipture or tradiition that excludes women from the Deacon. For sure the priesthood.

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Why can't woman be useful without laying claim to the title of 'deacon'? It is a step toward the priesthood... That would be like being a religious novice or engaged one's whole life.. Odd..

Apr 29 new

(Quote) Felicity-929402 said: Why can't woman be useful without laying claim to the title of 'deacon'? It is a s...
(Quote) Felicity-929402 said:

Why can't woman be useful without laying claim to the title of 'deacon'? It is a step toward the priesthood... That would be like being a religious novice or engaged one's whole life.. Odd..

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One problem with this argument is the permanent diaconate.

Apr 29 new

Wow! For once a question that elecited more male responders than female! Hmm.

Apr 29 new
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: http://news.yahoo.com/kentucky-woman-ordained-priest-defiance-roman-catholic-church-005633378.html
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

news.yahoo.com




Help me answer my friends who think this is a great thing, please.




So far they have posted:
1. Good for her. Follow your bliss, people.
2. Actually, many religions are catholic, and are Catholic in their proper names. The word means "universal." If Rosemarie Smead has indeed been ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, it is unprecedented as the Roman Catholic church has, to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge, not ordained a woman as a priest before. I am not sure what basic tenets she rejects, but surely those subjecting women to inferior status would have to be one of them.
3. According to the article, she still identifies as Catholic. Clearly, the group is a splinter group, and not sanctioned by the mainstream powers that be, but presumably they still follow many practices. They have emerged from the Catholic tradition, and are taking it in a new direction even as they continue to identify themselves with that tradition. It's not my label. Cathy and others (dissdots esp) wasn't there another group a few years back who did a similar ordination?? I seem to remember that there was, but I don't recall any details. I'm a curious bystander, not a Catholic or former Catholic.
4. and, keep in mind that the "tenets" of the faith were all decided solely by men, as if God doesn't speak to women at all.

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Looking forward to woman priest. .....YES
Apr 29 new

Apr 29 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: I agree but maybe there is an opening for women deacons
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

I agree but maybe there is an opening for women deacons

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No.

If a woman wants to serve as religious, she can be a nun. People need to stop looking for non-existent loopholes to thwart the natural, scriptural and theological order.

Apr 29 new

(Quote) Fred-828727 said: In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed t...
(Quote) Fred-828727 said:

In the Eastern tradition they assisted in Baptism and visited the imprisoned and sick Instructed the Catechumens. I still say there is nothing in Scipture or tradiition that excludes women from the Deacon. For sure the priesthood.

--hide--


Here's from the Canons of the First Council of Nicaea:

19. Concerning the former Paulinists who seek refuge in the Catholic Church, it is determined that they must be rebaptised unconditionally. Those who in the past have been enrolled among the clergy, if they appear to be blameless and irreproachable, are to be rebaptised and ordained by the Bishop of the Catholic Church. But if on inquiry they are shown to be unsuitable, it is right that they should be deposed. Similarly with regard to deaconesses and all in general whose names have been included in the roll, the same form shall be observed. We refer to deaconesses who have been granted this status, for they do not receive any imposition of hands, so that they are in all respects to be numbered among the laity.

Never has the Church seen deaconesses to be instituted or ordained to the diaconate (which is a major order). Deacon is not interchangeable with deaconess. A deaconess is still a lay woman, unlike a deacon, who is numbered amongst the clergy.


Apr 29 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or perf...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

There is no evidence the deaconesses mentioned in the New Testament were ordained or performed functions that must be performed by ordained ministers. They assisted with baptisms of adult females and things of that nature to preserve modesty.

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And it seems they always operated with a husband or other male figure who took the role. It seems similar to when a man is given the title Lord, his missus, regardless of her works or successes automatically becomes a Lady.

Apr 29 new

(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: news.yahoo.com.
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

news.yahoo.com


Help me answer my friends who think this is a great thing, please.


So far they have posted:
1. Good for her. Follow your bliss, people.
2. Actually, many religions are catholic, and are Catholic in their proper names. The word means "universal." If Rosemarie Smead has indeed been ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, it is unprecedented as the Roman Catholic church has, to the best of my admittedly limited knowledge, not ordained a woman as a priest before. I am not sure what basic tenets she rejects, but surely those subjecting women to inferior status would have to be one of them.
3. According to the article, she still identifies as Catholic. Clearly, the group is a splinter group, and not sanctioned by the mainstream powers that be, but presumably they still follow many practices. They have emerged from the Catholic tradition, and are taking it in a new direction even as they continue to identify themselves with that tradition. It's not my label. Cathy and others (dissdots esp) wasn't there another group a few years back who did a similar ordination?? I seem to remember that there was, but I don't recall any details. I'm a curious bystander, not a Catholic or former Catholic.
4. and, keep in mind that the "tenets" of the faith were all decided solely by men, as if God doesn't speak to women at all.

--hide--


There's no such thing as "women priests". Read the ex cathedra statement from Ordination Sacerdotalis:

"Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful."

Also, check Canon Law:

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3.

Can. 1024 A baptized male alone receives sacred ordination validly.

Apr 29 new
It wasn't an argument, just a comment. I'm a woman who would have loved to serve the Mass and it still frustrates me when boys and men do not appreciate the gift they have. If I wish to serve the Mass though, I can help with the linens...do flowers.. sing in the choir. My only argument is: why does a definition have to change to include women. This liberal attitude of "I have a right to it", is not Catholic. This reminds me of the legal case of the woman whose daughter wanted to join the boy scouts. (...I guess she never heard of the Girl Scouts/Guides.. simlar to how these women have never heard of serving God in the way that women always have)
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