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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Note specifically canon 1155: Can. 1155 ...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

Note specifically canon 1155:

Can. 1155 The innocent spouse may laudably readmit the other spouse to the conjugal life, in which case he or she renounces the right to separation.

In other words, you can't have a conjugal relationship and be separated: it's one or the other.


Ok how about divorced but still cohabitating
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faint faint faint faint faint faint faint

May 11th 2013 new
I am assuming that in this case, the couple started quarreling after they got married, not before. Otherwise, like Jerry, I would be wondering: what kind of marriage is this?
May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Paul-302787 said: I am assuming that in this case, the couple started quarreling after they got married, not before. Otherw...
(Quote) Paul-302787 said: I am assuming that in this case, the couple started quarreling after they got married, not before. Otherwise, like Jerry, I would be wondering: what kind of marriage is this?
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Many marriages are unhappy with quarrelling.Sad.

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: The question is:two legally divorced people are considered married without an annulment, if not seeking ...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: The question is:two legally divorced people are considered married without an annulment, if not seeking annulment, why can't they have sex to create more children being that they are still married?
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Laura, I hope this helps to answer your questions some.

I am so very confused by this thread, but I think perhaps I might be able to add something that will help, to the various tangents that have appeared. In regard to divorce, below is the link and an excerpt from the Catholic Encyclopedia online about divorce. Please note, there are at least three differentiations here. The third, relates to civil law -- divorce results in the dissolution of the marital bond as well. For Catholics, we generally understand divorce as the second: divortium imperfectum (limited divorce). . .divorce meaning the separation of bed and board) which would include both where one lives and where one no longer partakes of the conjugal life (that would be the bed part). One can follow the link to read the entire article. So if you have a civil divorce you are no longer validly married by the law of the land so to speak, it also results in what we as Catholics understand as an imperfect divorce meaning that we no longer live in the same place nor do we engage in the activities normal to marriage with the other person, but because all marriages are considered to have been legally valid and sacramentally valid without the investigation and decision of the Tribunal, the person is not free to remarry or engage in dating until a decree of nullity is granted, if it is.

www.newadvent.org

The term divorce (divortium, from divertere, divortere, "to separate") was employed in pagan Rome for the mutual separation of married people. Etymologically the word does not indicate whether this mutual separation included the dissolution of the marriage bond, and in fact the word is used in the Church and in ecclesiastical law in this neutral signification. Hence we distinguish between divortium plenum or perfectum (absolute divorce), which implies the dissolution of the marriage bond, and divortium imperfectum (limited divorce), which leaves the marriage bond intact and implies only the cessation of common life (separation from bed and board, or in addition separation of dwelling-place). In civil law divorce means the dissolution of the marriage bond; divortium imperfectum is called separation (séparation de corps).

I think I will send two posts so as not to further confuse the issues

May 11th 2013 new

HI Albert,

I have been trying to follow this thread and to be honest my head is spinning. I answered one of the spin offs already, but wanted to provide some thoughts to yours as well.

God reveals himself to us through any number of means, primarily through the teachings of the Church, Tradition and Holy Scripture. In the Church is the fullness of revelation revealed, meaning that the Church holds the fullness of Truth. That does not negate revelation coming from other avenues as well, but it will always be only partially received and understood.

Scriptures are divinely inspired although written by human hands, we believe that the Holy Spirit guided the authors in the revelation and fullness of Truth contained in them as the Word of God. The Church has always taught that the Church has as part of its mission the duty and the right to interpret Scripture and to supervise the interpretation in order that its integrity may not be damaged and erroneous interpretations be given. However, it also encourages the reading and study of Scripture. I woudl add with a reliance on the writings of the Church as well as to how these are interpreted and why. The Bible is a complilation of divinely inspired revelations that tell the story of our Salvation among other things. While some things are to be taken literally not all things in the Bible are meant to be interpreted literally or need to be. They represent a truth in their telling but it may not be historically true -- for example, the importance of the Genesis stories are that God brought the world and everything in it into being and he created Man in his image. Perhaps the links below will help. I would also refer you to the Catechism, which can also be searched online. I provided a link for this as well for the search for the Interpretation of Scripture.

www.newadvent.org

www.newadvent.org

www.newadvent.org

www.newadvent.org

www.usccb.org

In regard to the premarital sex thing, I am too confused over what the point was or not to effectively address it. But, I will point out that love for another person can be shared without sexual intimacy, and despite how much we believe we love another person, engaging in sexual intimacy without the committment and surrender of marriage, we are cheapening the gift of that intimacy and we are ultimately cheating ourselves of the truly exquisite gift of that intimacy. As a result, it can lead to disappointment and a sense of devaluation of both the self and others, and ultimately leaves one empty rather than fulfilled and renewed by the encounter. It is in this way, sex can become an addiction like any other drug, seeking more and more to grab the transitory illusion of its benefits, because the enjoyment is only superficial and momentary in this type of encounter. In addition, the risk of creating a life and then because of the instable nature of the relationship to begin with, that child grows up without the benefit of a strong, stable and loving foundation, is enough reason to avoid succumbing to the temptation.

Like I said, I am totally confused by this thread, but perhaps some of the above will help. If it doesn't please feel free to disregard it as the ravings of a confused but well meaning contributor.

May 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: I have read ...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: I have read lots of scriptures, I'm not sure where it states I have to live with my husband...where is that? I can marry him and become one flesh....but I don't think I have to live with him...I'm not sure, maybe it's specifically in the bible, just don't remember where.

Scripture is only one portion of our Faith. The absence of something in Scripture says nothing o its merit or lack thereof.


It's absence means that man is making the assumption. You assume two married people must live together.
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Again, Scripture is not the only source of our faith or our law. In this case the law regarding separation of spouses is specified in the code of canon law; that these restrictions are not derived directly from Scripture does not invalidate them.

May 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: Note specifically canon 1155: Can. 1155 ...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said:
Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

Note specifically canon 1155:

Can. 1155 The innocent spouse may laudably readmit the other spouse to the conjugal life, in which case he or she renounces the right to separation.

In other words, you can't have a conjugal relationship and be separated: it's one or the other.


Ok how about divorced but still cohabitating
--hide--

I don't know of any specific teachings or laws on this point, but this certainly doesn't mean they don't exist.

Several factors I can think of that need to be considered:

(a) Is such a living arrangement legal?

(b) Is it somehow a source of scandal (which is quite possible if it is commonly known the couple is divorced)?

(c) If there are children in the marriage, does the situation jeopardize their financial or legal security?

I suspect there are other considerations as well.

May 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Bernard-2709 said: Some people can't live together,but still have a conjugal relationship.They fight when they a...
(Quote) Bernard-2709 said:

Some people can't live together,but still have a conjugal relationship.They fight when they are together,but,,,etc etc.Some relationships are strained.Just saying.

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True. But that ti happens says nothing of the moral status of such an arrangement.

May 12th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not addressing the objection because it stated if seeking an annulment, what if they are not becaus...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not addressing the objection because it stated if seeking an annulment, what if they are not because they feel their marriage was valid. The argument states married couples may engage in sex, how is this different. Are you not still married if their is no annulment?
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If they mutyally feel the marriage is valid, why are they divorced?

May 12th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: I am not addressing the objection because it stated if seeking an ann...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: I am not addressing the objection because it stated if seeking an annulment, what if they are not because they feel their marriage was valid. The argument states married couples may engage in sex, how is this different. Are you not still married if their is no annulment?

If they mutyally feel the marriage is valid, why are they divorced?

--hide--
My friends did it for financial reasons. They have lived together ever since their divorce and they still mutually agree they are married spiritually, just not legally.
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