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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

May 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Pauline-931463 said: (Quote) Pauline-931463 said: Would that be post marital sex since he is y...
(Quote) Pauline-931463 said:

Quote:
Pauline-931463 said:


Would that be post marital sex since he is your ex? But then you're still really married



I am sorry if this post of mine has misled anyone. As Jerry explicitly said, If a person is applying for annulment, it means a valid marriage never existed, so sex is immoral. However while married, the couple may not have realised this and so while they were married, sex within that marriage would have been OK (i think as the couple at that stage thought they were married.)

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Applying does not mean a valid marriage never existed. Only the final determination and decision does. Not the application.
May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Applying does not mean a valid marriage never existed. Only the final determination and decision does. N...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Applying does not mean a valid marriage never existed. Only the final determination and decision does. Not the application.
--hide--


If you have enough doubt that a sacramental marriage exists then you should not be sexually active with that person! That is just wrong on so many levels!!!! That's the same silly reasoning that some use when they say premarital sex is ok because they are going to get married anyway. It's just justifying selfishness and lust with twisted logic.

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Pauline-931463 said: As Jerry explicitly said, If a person is applying for annulment, it means a valid marriage neve...
(Quote) Pauline-931463 said:

As Jerry explicitly said, If a person is applying for annulment, it means a valid marriage never existed,

--hide--

Actually, that's not quite what I said. If the annulment is granted the Church has determined that a valid marriage never existed.

Petitioning for a decree of nullity means only that the petitioner has some belief the marriage may not have been valid. Regardless of how certain either spouse, their pastor, or any other individual may be that a marriage is invalid, the Church presumes it to be valid until a determination to the contrary is made by the competent authority (cf. can 1060).

The point I was trying to make was that you can't have your cake and eat it, too (i.e., be pursuing an annulment while engaging in conjugal behavior).

May 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: (Quote) Pauline-931463 said: As Jerry explicitly said, If a person is applying for annulm...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

Quote:
Pauline-931463 said:

As Jerry explicitly said, If a person is applying for annulment, it means a valid marriage never existed,


Actually, that's not quite what I said. If the annulment is granted the Church has determined that a valid marriage never existed.

Petitioning for a decree of nullity means only that the petitioner has some belief the marriage may not have been valid. Regardless of how certain either spouse, their pastor, or any other individual may be that a marriage is invalid, the Church presumes it to be valid until a determination to the contrary is made by the competent authority (cf. can 1060).

The point I was trying to make was that you can't have your cake and eat it, too (i.e., be pursuing an annulment while engaging in conjugal behavior).

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What if you don't pursue the annulment because you think the marriage is valid.
May 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: Applying does not mean a valid marriage never existed. Only the fin...
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: Applying does not mean a valid marriage never existed. Only the final determination and decision does. Not the application.


If you have enough doubt that a sacramental marriage exists then you should not be sexually active with that person! That is just wrong on so many levels!!!! That's the same silly reasoning that some use when they say premarital sex is ok because they are going to get married anyway. It's just justifying selfishness and lust with twisted logic.

--hide--
What if their is no application for annulment. Some people don't pursue that because they feel their marriage was valid. It's not the same silly reasoning as you say. We are talking about two very different arguments. The idea of not dating because your still married without an annulment vs premarital sex by two people who are not married.....wrong analogy. We are talking about two people who are "married" already. If your married, sex is fine. If no application of annulment because the person feels they had a valid marriage, is it still fine? They are still married according to the church.
May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: What if you don't pursue the annulment because you think the marriage is valid.
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: What if you don't pursue the annulment because you think the marriage is valid.
--hide--


Then why on earth would you get divorced and stay divorced????

You are trying to play games and cheat your way into having your cake and eating it too. Sex is for the unifying of a couple and should always be open to procreation -- and every child deserves a stable, intact family. You are trying to be clever but playing with your salvation.

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Jerry. Thanks for your insight. Precisely where in the bible does it say we must resume living togeth...
(Quote) Laura-857740 said: Hi Jerry. Thanks for your insight. Precisely where in the bible does it say we must resume living together
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Canons 1151-1155, for a start; there may be relevent canons elsewhere in the code.

A far better approach will be to read the sections of the Catechism pertaining to marriage and chastity with an open mind. It will become quite apparent that spouses can't have unity while striving to prove there was never a marriage.

May 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said: (Quote) Laura-857740 said: What if you don't pursue the annulment because you think the ma...
(Quote) Rachel-731570 said:

Quote:
Laura-857740 said: What if you don't pursue the annulment because you think the marriage is valid.


Then why on earth would you get divorced and stay divorced????

You are trying to play games and cheat your way into having your cake and eating it too. Sex is for the unifying of a couple and should always be open to procreation -- and every child deserves a stable, intact family. You are trying to be clever but playing with your salvation.

--hide--
First off, you are assuming I am engaging in such behavior. Assumed incorrectly. Secondary, it is the same argument regarding annulment....the argument that you are still married. You can't tell someone they are still married but cannot have sex with their married partner. If you don't agree, then I must be divorced from my ex, whether I have the annulment or not.
May 11th 2013 new
Laura -- not all sex between a married couple is fine -- sex out of selfish lustful desire is not good -- if you don't love your ex enough to work at being married to him, sex with him is just wanting your itch scratched, not making LOVE.
May 11th 2013 new
(Quote) Shara-929649 said: I am not sure which Catholic scholars you are reading to get this opinion but it certainly can't th...
(Quote) Shara-929649 said:

I am not sure which Catholic scholars you are reading to get this opinion but it certainly can't the ones you named. I think that you have somehow been misled. I am not sure when or how it happened but that it has happened is obvious. In fact these scholars support NOTHING of what you have said in previous posts; not just the 45 year old virgin bit. You would do well not to put your warped concepts on the doctors of the Church who are probably rolling in their graves at the thought of have such beliefs being tied to their names. I would suggest that a reread of whatever books you think gave you these concepts again. Completely baffled that you would quote doctors of the Church to support beliefs that are so anti-Church.

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The references to the scholars listed is not to justify my beliefs, as I very clearly stated, they are for you to educate yourself on the fact that the Catholic Church does not profess to say that biblical scripture is the verbatim word of God as you claim to know it but is open to interpretation. Period. Pretending that you know what God wants is however against the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, though obviously you are not of that mentality. It is what separates us from Islamic Jihad and suicide bombers, for this refer to St Augustine's teachings on just war. Not to learn about War but to learn about when the teachings of the church may not be in line with the moral and ethical realities and contradictions of our lives on earth. Not to mention the overwhelming and immense number of direct and unquestionable contradictions in the Bible. As far as St Thomas Aquinas, well, he would not likely be interested in a discussion so basic as this but he teaches of tolerance, patience and acceptance for others and you seem to be lacking some of those at this juncture. While I do not doubt that you are a good person, it is hard for me to believe that you mean well by your comments thus far.
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