Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

May 6th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: This quote came directly from the website I posted, you might be interested to read it. I ...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:



This quote came directly from the website I posted, you might be interested to read it. I grew up with three brothers so it wouldn't bother me either. However, there are girls who are not used to being around boys in this area. Either way, is it really appropriate for young girls to be exposed to the male anatomy in school? Let's keep on topic. There is such a thing as unisex restrooms. Why do they feel there should be a LAW for the small percentage of the population who are transgender? This isn't about what a young child might feel on the inside, it is about the anatomy of their bodies.
Are you saying a law like this wouldn't bother you?

--hide--

As the scenario was proposed I don't think it is off topic.

I had a fantastic professor for government in college, I can remember very clearly his answer to a question about why laws are passed protecting minorities when the majority is clearly opposed. He said, the law is to protect the rights of the minority against a majority that would otherwise be oppressive either intentionally or unintentionally, because no one's right to rights supercedes that of another. This is why we have a legal system that reviews and interprets and reviews law again at multiple levels.

The requirement for bathroom usage based on gender is already on the books in a number of cities, this proposal it appears makes it for the entire state.

Given that restrooms for girls are all stalls, there would be very little exposure to the male anatomy unless some little girl is peeking under the stall.

Switching to unisex or gender neutral restroom facilities would make this entire issue a non-issue, but may be impractical for existing structures. Although it could be incorporated in newer construction and already is because it is cheaper than building two facilities.

I suspect the reality will be fairly small numbers of incidents overall. It doesn't concern me much and if my child encountered such a situation and brought it home to me, it would provide an excellent teaching moment and opportunity for prayer.

May 6th 2013 new

rolling eyes It's unfortunate that the "Silent Majority" of the past is still Silent. It's even more unfortunate that the Voting Majority appears to Liberal and are spurred on by Hollywood and Sports celebrities. God Bless America. We need it! United States Flag

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: As the scenario was proposed I don't think it is off topic. I had a fantasti...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

As the scenario was proposed I don't think it is off topic.

I had a fantastic professor for government in college, I can remember very clearly his answer to a question about why laws are passed protecting minorities when the majority is clearly opposed. He said, the law is to protect the rights of the minority against a majority that would otherwise be oppressive either intentionally or unintentionally, because no one's right to rights supercedes that of another. This is why we have a legal system that reviews and interprets and reviews law again at multiple levels.

The requirement for bathroom usage based on gender is already on the books in a number of cities, this proposal it appears makes it for the entire state.

Given that restrooms for girls are all stalls, there would be very little exposure to the male anatomy unless some little girl is peeking under the stall.

Switching to unisex or gender neutral restroom facilities would make this entire issue a non-issue, but may be impractical for existing structures. Although it could be incorporated in newer construction and already is because it is cheaper than building two facilities.

I suspect the reality will be fairly small numbers of incidents overall. It doesn't concern me much and if my child encountered such a situation and brought it home to me, it would provide an excellent teaching moment and opportunity for prayer.

--hide--


Given that restrooms for girls are all stalls, there would be very little exposure to the male anatomy unless some little girl is peeking under the stall.


Actually, many of the schools here don't have doors on the stalls. Unless you have lived in Los Angeles you wouldn't understand how messy this could get. We have a lot of sex abuse problems. What about an older boy (maybe he is now very confused about his gender) that wants a peek at a little girl. Also, how long do you think it will take the "lawmakers" to decide that it is only fair that urinals be installed in all bathrooms? Is this really a matter of protecting a minority or is it more a matter of the government taking over every aspect of our lives? What about the rights of 99% of the parents? There truly are very few transgender children out there. I am certainly not trying to marginalize anyone. This situation is just way tooo invasive. Anyway, thank you for your input. Obviously, we see things very differently.

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: As the scenario was proposed I don't think it is off topic. I had a fantasti...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

As the scenario was proposed I don't think it is off topic.

I had a fantastic professor for government in college, I can remember very clearly his answer to a question about why laws are passed protecting minorities when the majority is clearly opposed. He said, the law is to protect the rights of the minority against a majority that would otherwise be oppressive either intentionally or unintentionally, because no one's right to rights supercedes that of another. This is why we have a legal system that reviews and interprets and reviews law again at multiple levels.

The requirement for bathroom usage based on gender is already on the books in a number of cities, this proposal it appears makes it for the entire state.

Given that restrooms for girls are all stalls, there would be very little exposure to the male anatomy unless some little girl is peeking under the stall.

Switching to unisex or gender neutral restroom facilities would make this entire issue a non-issue, but may be impractical for existing structures. Although it could be incorporated in newer construction and already is because it is cheaper than building two facilities.

I suspect the reality will be fairly small numbers of incidents overall. It doesn't concern me much and if my child encountered such a situation and brought it home to me, it would provide an excellent teaching moment and opportunity for prayer.

--hide--

So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genitalia and hormone therapy don't change the individuals genotype -- when all is said and done, their genetic makeup, which is what determines sex, is the same on the day they die as it was on the day they were born.

Beyond that, the lunacy in most of these proposed bathroom laws is that they allow an individual to use whatever bathroom they wish based solely on a spurious claim by the individual: in at least one case (I think it is MA, but I could be wrong) the schools are not even allowed to verify the claim with the student's parents or physician. Make no mistake: those pushing these laws don't care one iota for the welfare of the students -- their only objective is to further disrupt the moral fabric of society.

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So-called gender reassignment is anything but ...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

So-called gender reassignment is anything but ...

--hide--

I suppose that part of the body would be involved. smile

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genita...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genitalia and hormone therapy don't change the individuals genotype -- when all is said and done, their genetic makeup, which is what determines sex, is the same on the day they die as it was on the day they were born.

Beyond that, the lunacy in most of these proposed bathroom laws is that they allow an individual to use whatever bathroom they wish based solely on a spurious claim by the individual: in at least one case (I think it is MA, but I could be wrong) the schools are not even allowed to verify the claim with the student's parents or physician. Make no mistake: those pushing these laws don't care one iota for the welfare of the students -- their only objective is to further disrupt the moral fabric of society.

--hide--


Yes, Jerry, you hit the nail on the head.

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genita...
(Quote) Jerry-74383 said:

So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genitalia and hormone therapy don't change the individuals genotype -- when all is said and done, their genetic makeup, which is what determines sex, is the same on the day they die as it was on the day they were born.

Beyond that, the lunacy in most of these proposed bathroom laws is that they allow an individual to use whatever bathroom they wish based solely on a spurious claim by the individual: in at least one case (I think it is MA, but I could be wrong) the schools are not even allowed to verify the claim with the student's parents or physician. Make no mistake: those pushing these laws don't care one iota for the welfare of the students -- their only objective is to further disrupt the moral fabric of society.

--hide--

HI Jerry, I was just wondering where you have been biggrin . You are correct in some gender reassignments the genetic sex is actually xx or xy. In some it is not. Just as there are morphological differences along a continuum of variation and a continuum of ambiguity in the external genitalia, all genetic coding is not black and white and additional sex chromosomes are possible in a number of combinations. Based on the work of Dr. John Money from Johns Hopkins, the protocol for dealing with ambiguous infants was established. A protocol that we recognize today is not necessarily optimal for all cases. The advent of genetic testing has helped in many situations, but not all. One of the issues currently recognized is that hormonal imbalances during pregnancy can disrupt development of nueral pathways creating brains that are wired differently than the norm for certain genetic and biological sexes.

Additionally, there are certain conditions which create differences, among people in the Dominican Republic and also among some groups in the highlands of New Guinea is a condition known as 5-alpha reductase deficiency or 5-ARD, which results in genetic males and prevents the proper metabolism of testosterone in the womb, affecting male fetal development. Generally when the secondary hormones kick in a puberty more male characteristics develop but these children in the Domincan Republic are usually raised as female until that time, known as guevodoces, among those in Papua New Guinea the term is turniman. Affecting females is a condition known as CAH or Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. This condition can affect males as well but results in death unless swiftly caught and treated. In girls, it results in virilized anatomy. It can be treated in utero if caught and prevent some of the ambiguity of the external genitalia and neural pathways. These are just two of the conditions that can result in ambiguity and crossed wires in the brain.

These are conditions that all present some for of gender identity issue, but not all gender identity issues can be traced to a specific hormonal, genetic, or environmental toxin exposure, but some can and these need to be considered in these types of discussions.

These discussions often devolve into a nature vs nurture dichotomy, but as we gain more information we find it is not such a clear cut situation. Unfortunately, both sides of the debate often try to confine it to such a dichotomy. And, it saddens me, when issues get tacked onto agendas which in the end are probably more detrimental than helpful to the actual situations and lives of those involved.

As an undergraduate I undertook an independent study of the topic of third gender. I wanted to examine whether or not biological third gender mapped onto cultural third gender. I presented at conference and have guest lectured on the study.

So while I agree that there needs to be some common sense in the application of the bathroom law and there should be some legitimate verifiable documentation about the conditions that would prompt a child to use the technically opposite sex bathroom. I can see also situations where this would be beneficial to the child. And, yes of course there will be some who try to abuse the situation as there are in any situation.

And, I do agree that the agenda being pushed is most probably not geared toward the welfare of individuals suffering from legitimate conditions, but they get tacked onto the agenda for sympathy votes if you will, used to advance other agendas. We still need to be discriminating enough to tease out the legitimate from the non-legitimate and examine the issue from multiple angles and act appropriately, not just react to the apparent contrariness of the proposed action. Life is miraculous and deserving of dignity. It is also messy and imperfect. God gave us two things that allow us to navigate this messy world, a heart to prompt us to love and act on behalf of another and a mind to puzzle out confusing messy life. BOTH must be developed in order to be applied appropriately to the issues and problems of our world. We run into trouble when one or both of these gifts are left undeveloped or underdeveloped. God has also given us our faith and the Church which provide the foundations for the development of both of these gifts. But, even in that we sometimes develop only one muscle and not both.

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said: (Quote) Jerry-74383 said: So-called gender reassignment is anyth...
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

Quote:
Jerry-74383 said:

So-called gender reassignment is anything but: surgical alteration of the external genitalia and hormone therapy don't change the individuals genotype -- when all is said and done, their genetic makeup, which is what determines sex, is the same on the day they die as it was on the day they were born.

Beyond that, the lunacy in most of these proposed bathroom laws is that they allow an individual to use whatever bathroom they wish based solely on a spurious claim by the individual: in at least one case (I think it is MA, but I could be wrong) the schools are not even allowed to verify the claim with the student's parents or physician. Make no mistake: those pushing these laws don't care one iota for the welfare of the students -- their only objective is to further disrupt the moral fabric of society.


HI Jerry, I was just wondering where you have been . You are correct in some gender reassignments the genetic sex is actually xx or xy. In some it is not. Just as there are morphological differences along a continuum of variation and a continuum of ambiguity in the external genitalia, all genetic coding is not black and white and additional sex chromosomes are possible in a number of combinations. Based on the work of Dr. John Money from Johns Hopkins, the protocol for dealing with ambiguous infants was established. A protocol that we recognize today is not necessarily optimal for all cases. The advent of genetic testing has helped in many situations, but not all. One of the issues currently recognized is that hormonal imbalances during pregnancy can disrupt development of nueral pathways creating brains that are wired differently than the norm for certain genetic and biological sexes.

Additionally, there are certain conditions which create differences, among people in the Dominican Republic and also among some groups in the highlands of New Guinea is a condition known as 5-alpha reductase deficiency or 5-ARD, which results in genetic males and prevents the proper metabolism of testosterone in the womb, affecting male fetal development. Generally when the secondary hormones kick in a puberty more male characteristics develop but these children in the Domincan Republic are usually raised as female until that time, known as guevodoces, among those in Papua New Guinea the term is turniman. Affecting females is a condition known as CAH or Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. This condition can affect males as well but results in death unless swiftly caught and treated. In girls, it results in virilized anatomy. It can be treated in utero if caught and prevent some of the ambiguity of the external genitalia and neural pathways. These are just two of the conditions that can result in ambiguity and crossed wires in the brain.

These are conditions that all present some for of gender identity issue, but not all gender identity issues can be traced to a specific hormonal, genetic, or environmental toxin exposure, but some can and these need to be considered in these types of discussions.

These discussions often devolve into a nature vs nurture dichotomy, but as we gain more information we find it is not such a clear cut situation. Unfortunately, both sides of the debate often try to confine it to such a dichotomy. And, it saddens me, when issues get tacked onto agendas which in the end are probably more detrimental than helpful to the actual situations and lives of those involved.

As an undergraduate I undertook an independent study of the topic of third gender. I wanted to examine whether or not biological third gender mapped onto cultural third gender. I presented at conference and have guest lectured on the study.

So while I agree that there needs to be some common sense in the application of the bathroom law and there should be some legitimate verifiable documentation about the conditions that would prompt a child to use the technically opposite sex bathroom. I can see also situations where this would be beneficial to the child. And, yes of course there will be some who try to abuse the situation as there are in any situation.

And, I do agree that the agenda being pushed is most probably not geared toward the welfare of individuals suffering from legitimate conditions, but they get tacked onto the agenda for sympathy votes if you will, used to advance other agendas. We still need to be discriminating enough to tease out the legitimate from the non-legitimate and examine the issue from multiple angles and act appropriately, not just react to the apparent contrariness of the proposed action. Life is miraculous and deserving of dignity. It is also messy and imperfect. God gave us two things that allow us to navigate this messy world, a heart to prompt us to love and act on behalf of another and a mind to puzzle out confusing messy life. BOTH must be developed in order to be applied appropriately to the issues and problems of our world. We run into trouble when one or both of these gifts are left undeveloped or underdeveloped. God has also given us our faith and the Church which provide the foundations for the development of both of these gifts. But, even in that we sometimes develop only one muscle and not both.

--hide--

Re-reading the law it goes way beyond using an opposite sex bathroom. "This bill seeks to impose radical “gender identity” mandates on K-12 public schools to a degree that most parents would find shocking. AB 1266 requires that elementary, middle and high school students be allowed to fully participate on sports teams of the opposite sex, and access opposite-sex bathrooms, locker rooms, and other “facilities,” based solely on the student’s self-proclaimed “gender identity”—not their biological sex." I am wondering how in the world they would monitor this. I was listening to the radio and they were pointing out that this is every teen boy's dream and you would have to be a boy to understand that...a free pass into the girls world without detention!

Lauren, yes, this would definitely provide a teaching moment. I don't remember separate stalls in locker rooms. As much as you want this to be about acceptance and loving each other, it has virtually nothing to do with that and more to do with what you said about advancing other political agendas. As usual innocent people are being used.
Unfortunately, though it might prove beneficial to the one child in the whole school that has a legitimate identity issue, what about the upheaval it will cause the rest of the children?


May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Laura-56149 said: Re-reading the law it goes way beyond using an opposite sex bathroom. "This bill seeks to...
(Quote) Laura-56149 said:


Re-reading the law it goes way beyond using an opposite sex bathroom. "This bill seeks to impose radical “gender identity” mandates on K-12 public schools to a degree that most parents would find shocking. AB 1266 requires that elementary, middle and high school students be allowed to fully participate on sports teams of the opposite sex, and access opposite-sex bathrooms, locker rooms, and other “facilities,” based solely on the student’s self-proclaimed “gender identity”—not their biological sex." I am wondering how in the world they would monitor this. I was listening to the radio and they were pointing out that this is every teen boy's dream and you would have to be a boy to understand that...a free pass into the girls world without detention!

Lauren, yes, this would definitely provide a teaching moment. I don't remember separate stalls in locker rooms. As much as you want this to be about acceptance and loving each other, it has virtually nothing to do with that and more to do with what you said about advancing other political agendas. As usual innocent people are being used.
Unfortunately, though it might prove beneficial to the one child in the whole school that has a legitimate identity issue, what about the upheaval it will cause the rest of the children?

HI Laura,

You are right, if there are no requirements for documentation and it is based solely on a self-proclaimed identity issue then it is wide open for trouble, and it would be a teen boys dream, probably a few teen girls as well.

--hide--

May 7th 2013 new

(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:
(Quote) Lauren-927923 said:

--hide--

Sorry my response was caught in the quoted part.

HI Laura,

You are right, if there are no requirements for documentation and it is based solely on a self-proclaimed identity issue then it is wide open for trouble, and it would be a teen boys dream, probably a few teen girls as well.

I suspect this will be met with some lawsuits, before it is finally settled.

Posts 31 - 40 of 45