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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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May 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: Apparently, our society doesn't think it's worthy to help save the homosexuals, ...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



Apparently, our society doesn't think it's worthy to help save the homosexuals, because theyre being called "gay", and not needing help with their problem.

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Do you care to explain that? Who are being saved by our society to begin with?

May 9th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: Being homosexual isn't about thinking of having sex and being christian isn't about not s...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

Being homosexual isn't about thinking of having sex and being christian isn't about not sinning. If Christians were only those who never sinned the number of Christians would be very easy to count, and you would not be one of them either. So why are you so quick to point out homosexuals not being christian?

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You are also a sinner but I can understand your point of view; I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?
If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual..
I know that you don't respect my view...it's not about me and you but the issue of homosexuals on a Catholic campus that create problems.

May 10th 2013 new

Hi Peter

I believe that Jesus died for all mankind. So, I believe that all mankind is worth saving. But, the Bible has more to say. I believe that the Gospel should be shared with those that are willing to listen. I think Jesus was telling His disciples not to bother with people that didn't want to listen. That is why I believe what I do. There is this interesting thing about free will. God gives us free will. If God gives me free will and you free will then I would never presume to take away your free will. No if you want to sin and go to hell do I care? Well yes, I don't want anybody to go to hell. But I cannot force you to listen, I cannot open your heart to hear. You must choose. If you choose God I will help you as much as I can.

Perhaps the way we get people to listen is to live better. Perhaps if people saw our lives and liked what they saw and were a little, or alot, jealous they would listen more. I have a hunch that going into a gay group and telling them they are sinners isn't going to accomplish much. But that is just my guess, I could be wrong. I have friends that have gay children. Now I like my friends. I respect them. I think they suffered for awhile because their kids turned out to be gay. I would never carry on about how gays are sinners and are going to hell or anything like that around my friends. Would you if you were in my place?

May 10th 2013 new

Most gay-straight alliance groups are formed to build greater understanding among people of different orientations and to diminish the liklihood of violence and hate crimes. If the group at your Catholic university has moved on to advocacy regarding sexual activity and marriage, though, they have crossed a line regarding the Church's position on the pastoral care of homosexuals. However, I can't see any way your going to their meeting and lecturing them about Church teaching won't be confrontational and seem mean spirited. Based on 40 years teaching in a Catholic university myself, I recommend that you talk to someone in authority at the university to find out why this group has been accepted as a university group. Start with the university chaplain, or the head of the theology department, and explain your dilemma about the group. If you go into the group as a crusade of one against them, you may only succeed in hardening their hearts to the true teaching of the Church. Better to approach individual members of the group personally.

May 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: You are also a sinner but I can understand your point of view; I guess it's hard for...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



You are also a sinner but I can understand your point of view; I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?
If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual..
I know that you don't respect my view...it's not about me and you but the issue of homosexuals on a Catholic campus that create problems.

--hide--
"I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?" Excuse me? Because of my living environment?

"If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual.."

Let's see what the Catechism has to say about that: www.vatican.va

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Nowhere does the Church say that a homosexual person isn't a Christian or that being homosexual is a sin. So why do you?

May 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Ronald-937125 said: You are also a sinner but I can understand your point of view; I guess it's hard for...
(Quote) Ronald-937125 said:



You are also a sinner but I can understand your point of view; I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?
If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual..
I know that you don't respect my view...it's not about me and you but the issue of homosexuals on a Catholic campus that create problems.

--hide--
"I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?" Excuse me? Because of my living environment?

"If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual.."

Let's see what the Catechism has to say about that: www.vatican.va

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Nowhere does the Church say that a homosexual person isn't a Christian or that being homosexual is a sin. So why do you?

May 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said: Hi Peter I believe that Jesus died for all mankind. So, I believe that all mankind is w...
(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said:

Hi Peter

I believe that Jesus died for all mankind. So, I believe that all mankind is worth saving. But, the Bible has more to say. I believe that the Gospel should be shared with those that are willing to listen. I think Jesus was telling His disciples not to bother with people that didn't want to listen. That is why I believe what I do. There is this interesting thing about free will. God gives us free will. If God gives me free will and you free will then I would never presume to take away your free will. No if you want to sin and go to hell do I care? Well yes, I don't want anybody to go to hell. But I cannot force you to listen, I cannot open your heart to hear. You must choose. If you choose God I will help you as much as I can.

Perhaps the way we get people to listen is to live better. Perhaps if people saw our lives and liked what they saw and were a little, or alot, jealous they would listen more. I have a hunch that going into a gay group and telling them they are sinners isn't going to accomplish much. But that is just my guess, I could be wrong. I have friends that have gay children. Now I like my friends. I respect them. I think they suffered for awhile because their kids turned out to be gay. I would never carry on about how gays are sinners and are going to hell or anything like that around my friends. Would you if you were in my place?

--hide--
Some people take a longer time to see the light than others. Are they not worth saving? It's not up to me to judge them unworthy. Remember that the part of the gospel you quoted was from the first time Jesus sent out the Apostles, while He was still with them. If they were to have left places where people didn't want to listen to them, when He sent them out the second time, very few people would have heard the gospel.

You cannot force me to listen you say. But St:Paul refused to listen to the gospel until Jesus smacked him over the head and asked him why he was doing what he was doing. A good whack over the head is just what it takes sometimes.

"I have a hunch that going into a gay group and telling them they are sinners isn't going to accomplish much. But that is just my guess, I could be wrong." Guess what? I have a hunch you are right.

"I would never carry on about how gays are sinners and are going to hell or anything like that around my friends." That's very wise of you, but I hope you don't do that anywhere since being gay isn't a sin.

May 10th 2013 new

Smacking people gets you arrested. Probably shouldn't do that, but it is tempting. Being gay, wheither it is a sin or not, depends on the person and their relationship with God. My friend's children are living with someone in a homosexual relationship. Still, I don't make comments about gays.

Thanks for telling me I did a very wise thing. Don't often hear that.

Do you have any actual factual data to support that when Paul, or Peter went out preaching they preached to hostile crowds and God sent down some sort of 1st century whack over the head? I know all the Apostles got in serious trouble and mostly died for what they were preaching but I am not aware of them continually trying to make believers out of people that did not want to listen.

There are more stories in the New Testament where Jesus cautions His disciples not to preach to hostile crowds. Indeed, I do not see the official Catholic Church going into groups like a gay association and telling them that their love life, or sex life, is going to get them in trouble. I do see priests and bishops making statements occasionally about how you should not recieve Communion if you do something, but even those are not very common.

I think the church is trying to reach out to people, not make them feel bad.

May 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said: Smacking people gets you arrested. Probably shouldn't do that, but it is tempting. Being g...
(Quote) Lawrence-943343 said:

Smacking people gets you arrested. Probably shouldn't do that, but it is tempting. Being gay, wheither it is a sin or not, depends on the person and their relationship with God. My friend's children are living with someone in a homosexual relationship. Still, I don't make comments about gays.

Thanks for telling me I did a very wise thing. Don't often hear that.

Do you have any actual factual data to support that when Paul, or Peter went out preaching they preached to hostile crowds and God sent down some sort of 1st century whack over the head? I know all the Apostles got in serious trouble and mostly died for what they were preaching but I am not aware of them continually trying to make believers out of people that did not want to listen.

There are more stories in the New Testament where Jesus cautions His disciples not to preach to hostile crowds. Indeed, I do not see the official Catholic Church going into groups like a gay association and telling them that their love life, or sex life, is going to get them in trouble. I do see priests and bishops making statements occasionally about how you should not recieve Communion if you do something, but even those are not very common.

I think the church is trying to reach out to people, not make them feel bad.

--hide--


If you re-read what Peter said, you'll see that he claims St. Paul (when still named Saul) was the one "whacked" not the crowd to whom he was speaking.

May 10th 2013 new

(Quote) Peter-933860 said: "I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you ...
(Quote) Peter-933860 said:

"I guess it's hard for you to understand others because of the environment that you live in?" Excuse me? Because of my living environment?

"If homosexuals went to confession and were sorry for the sin of being a homosexual then they would be Christian; and also I don't think that they could be still be called homosexual.."

Let's see what the Catechism has to say about that: www.vatican.va

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

Nowhere does the Church say that a homosexual person isn't a Christian or that being homosexual is a sin. So why do you?

--hide--


The first paragraph states that homosexual acts can't be approved. If they are chaste, as I said above, I don't think that they could be called homosexual.
The second paragraph is about tendencies, and these people can be Christian because they have not commited homosexual acts.
If homosexuals think they are Christian, they are wrong since their homosexual acts can't be approved.
Their is no such thing as children being homosexuals. Sex is largely a learned behavior...married homosexuals with children should be considered sexual pedators as pedophiles are, since they would probably encourage homosexual behavior. Pedophiles aren't born that way as well; homosexuals learn their behavior.
Bestiality was also popular when there were more farms; that’s not much different than committing homosexual acts.

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