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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
Learn More:Saint Thomas More

Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: You don't think war is a moral issue in which the Church can speak? The Pope teaching is binding on matters of Faith and Morals, and where the Magisterium has clear teaching, such as the Just War Theory, the Pontiff has a duty to correct those that abuse the teaching as Bush and his supporters did.

In which case, does it have the right to speak on the Syrian Civil War which is costing the lives of Christians in the place they were first called such, even if only to call for peace there?

No, the Church in fact does have a great deal to say on international issues, especially in the morality of acts such as war that affect the peace of all. It only needs to remain in good diplomatic standing with all belligerent parties in future wars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrality_%28international_relations%29

John and Steven:

Your dialogue on this is fascinating. Both of you sound right, until I read
the others response.

You both have such good abilities to describe war and problems. I commend you both.

Marianne
Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) John-336509 said: March 16, 2003 there are 5 different reasons listed:

The dictator of Iraq and his weapons of mass destruction are a threat to the security of free nations. He is a danger to his neighbors. He's a sponsor of terrorism. He's an obstacle to progress in the Middle East. For decades he has been the cruel, cruel oppressor of the Iraq people.


John: I knew about those reasons, but I do and did not think they were reasons
why America should overthrow Iraq's government.

Saddam Hussein was an idiot for allowing outsiders to think he still had WMD's. That led
to his downfall. Can't figure out why he was doing that?
Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Marianne-100218 said: John: I knew about those reasons, but I do and did not think they were reasons
why America should overthrow Iraq's government.

Saddam Hussein was an idiot for allowing outsiders to think he still had WMD's. That led
to his downfall. Can't figure out why he was doing that?
Speculation on my part, but I imagine that he figured people would fear him more if they thought he had WMDs. I think that most dictators value fear. They feel that the more people fear them, the safer they are.

As to why America? If we didn't, nobody would.

For all the whining and complaining that goes on about how the U.S. isn't the world's policeman, the cold hard reality is that the world does not, and will not, have a "policeman."

Analogies always fall apart if pushed too far. Trying to claim that it is even possible for there to exist a policeman to deal with nations the same way real police deal with individuals is to push the analogy too far.

You can't peel a country of the globe and put it in "nation jail." There will never be a trial by an impartial jury. There is no 911 to call, no cops to show up if you did, and even if there were such cops, they would sit around and decide if they liked you before they decided to help you. Basically, no part of the police analogy translates into international relations.
Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) John-336509 said: As to why America? If we didn't, nobody would.

Analogies always fall apart if pushed too far. Trying to claim that it is even possible for there to exist a policeman to deal with nations the same way real police deal with individuals is to push the analogy too far.
Just because if we didn't, nobody else would doesn't mean we should have.

The U.S. put up a standard of sovereignty that amounts to "might makes right."

The problem with that is that we only have a limited time at #1, and beyond that we'd better hope we haven't ticked off somebody enough to change our regime or, worse, break off part of our country (Arizona, say) and declare it a new nation by fiat as we did with Kosovo, a part of Serbia until President Bush said otherwise.
Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Just because if we didn't, nobody else would doesn't mean we should have.

The U.S. put up a standard of sovereignty that amounts to "might makes right."

The problem with that is that we only have a limited time at #1, and beyond that we'd better hope we haven't ticked off somebody enough to change our regime or, worse, break off part of our country (Arizona, say) and declare it a new nation by fiat as we did with Kosovo, a part of Serbia until President Bush said otherwise.
Your first sentence is a correct statement.

Even if I agreed that should not have taken out Saddam, I'd still disagree with your second sentence.

None of the folks who would be inclined to "change our regime" right now care about principles anyway, so the third paragraph is something of a moot point.
Jun 4th 2013 new
John and Steven:

Why couldn't we have just gone into Iraq, back in 2002, bully Saddam and his military into cooperating
or else, then look for the WMD's, and if there were WMD's get rid of them, and then leave.

I did not realize that going into Iraq meant we were going to destroy the country first, then
nation build. America can't even help out its own states when they are devastated from
Hurricanes, or now Tornados.

What is wrong with those people in Washington? They have to get some common sense first
before they decide to run a country.
Jun 6th 2013 new
(quote) Rebecca-654746 said: ...our country is not the policeman of the world. Nobody else has given us this authority ...
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
Jun 6th 2013 new
(quote) ed-925050 said: The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
EXACTLY!!!

Serve and protect, etcetera.....
Jun 10th 2013 new
Here's more evidence of horrible crimes being committed by the extremist rebels in Syria:

[A teenager selling coffee in the northern Syrian city of Aleppo was arrested by Islamist rebel fighters for insulting the Prophet Mohammed, beaten and then executed in front of his family, a watchdog group claims. The boy, Mohammed Qatta, 14, reportedly refused to give a customer coffee, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported Sunday. "Even if [Prophet] Mohammed comes back to life, I won't," the boy said, who was known by his nickname "Salmo." Extremist rebels driving past in a black car overheard the comment, the opposition Aleppo Media Center said. Qatta was taken away by the fighters and later brought back, his head wrapped with his shirt and his body covered with marks from whipping. The rebels then read out the boy's sentence - not in a Syrian accent, but in classical Arabic. They accused the boy of blasphemy and told the crowd - which included the boy's parents - that anyone who insulted the Prophet would suffer a similar fate. Qatta was then shot in the mouth and neck. A graphic photo was released late Sunday of the dead boy clearly showing wounds that matched the reports.]

news.yahoo.com
Jun 10th 2013 new
Here's an excerpt from an opinion piece about those rebels:

[The cold-blooded terrorists have already massacred countless civilians, including the entire Christian village of al Duvair; executed government prisoners; beheaded two Syrian army officers; and ripped the heart out of a government soldier. They have kidnapped thousands of others, including two orthodox Syrian Christian bishops, and arrested 21 Filipino peacekeeping troops.These are the actions of terrorists, not freedom fighters.The London-based Amnesty International said the rebel violence amounted to war crimes, and said they "are summarily killing people with a chilling sense of impunity."Yet, Obama, Kerry and Republican hawks like Sen. John McCain want to arm these war criminals.]

www.cleveland.com


I don't think we should be arming them, or aiding them in any way.
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