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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

May 10th 2013 new
I think friendship first is still a good idea. First, it will strengthen romance when it develops. Second, it will compensate when the romance just isn't there for whatever reason. I think in order to share a mission, some level of friendship is necessary; the more the merrier.
May 11th 2013 new
Seriously, how are real, genuine guys supposed to compete when women want the dysfunctional roller coaster like in the notebook, or other films? I've only seen the honest trailer adaptation, but they go back and forth pretty readily between loving/kissing and hating/slapping each other right? Why is that considered romantic and desirable?
May 11th 2013 new
(quote) Marge-938695 said:

I think you're right.

I think too many women have been brainwashed by movies and television that suggest that "chemistry" is something immediate and powerful, rather than something you build up little by little.

Hang in there, dude.

For reference on my last post I really should have quoted.
May 11th 2013 new

Great comment, Daniel.
I always wonder, why would you want a person who thinks that that kind of thing's a real, solid relationship? That's wacko.
A real relationship is based on maturity and mutual consideration and admiration.

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Daniel-726519 said: An important thing to me in a relationship is that it grows out of a friendship. And I don't say th...
(Quote) Daniel-726519 said: An important thing to me in a relationship is that it grows out of a friendship. And I don't say this as something to attract women who say they dream their husband will be their best friend, I really mean it. I feel that knowing a woman for something like 6 months is essential to actually be starting a relationship on something other than physical attraction. Not an ideal approach to combine with website dating to say the least it seems. I've met a few people online and despite them saying they agreed with this, they either weren't willing to continue the friendship when they determined immediate dating attraction wasn't there, or they ended the friendship when it didn't progress to me asking them out before another guy asked them out. And unfortunately, all of my female friends who I find to be compatible with me don't agree.

So here are the questions:

Am I foolish to believe this could work and seek it?
Is this still a good pursuit, but maybe just not for a dating site?
--hide--



Hi Daniel--personally, I prefer your approach, though I am not prone to wait for 6 months of friendship to start dating a woman. That's because I've found that chemistry, which frankly is important, usually develops fairly quickly for me and either is there or it isn't. My understanding is that for women developing attraction takes longer. That's probably a good thing that the sexes are different in that regard!!

Here's my take--stick to your general principles on this one but avoid rigid rules. The young adult Catholic scene is riddled with so many rules, guides, and whatnot, that we are all supposed to automatically intuit that it can drive a person crazy! One approach I'm trying which may help with what you are trying to do is this: take the initiative to be generous and giving with your friends. Take the lead and organize parties, events, groups to volunteer etc... (and treat *everyone* with respect, so that it doesn't turn into high school). This way, there are events where you *do* something together rather than just go to a talk or happy hour where you're a passive consumer. The former, incidentally, are the types of things where chemistry develops more readily for me personally. Also, look for opportunities where you can take a leadership role. It helps you develop as a person and may be an opportunity to develop friendships with members of both sexes.

What do the women think of this approach? Question is timely for me, as I've been thinking about the same thing.

Eric

May 11th 2013 new

Daniel, 25 years ago, I was best friends with a man who was nearly six years younger than I am. He asked me out 19 times before I finally said yes. I was afraid of ruining the friendship. We eloped 4 months later and had 23 years together before he passed away. We stayed always best friends. He made me laugh and he just got me. I couldn't have a relationship without that again. Friendship is glue.

May 11th 2013 new

(Quote) Daniel-726519 said: Seriously, how are real, genuine guys supposed to compete when women want the dysfunctional roller coas...
(Quote) Daniel-726519 said: Seriously, how are real, genuine guys supposed to compete when women want the dysfunctional roller coaster like in the notebook, or other films? I've only seen the honest trailer adaptation, but they go back and forth pretty readily between loving/kissing and hating/slapping each other right? Why is that considered romantic and desirable?
--hide--

I had to laugh when I read this. I am note a huge fan of the Notebook, except in the dedication he has for his wife and that they chose to go together. . .however that happened. My husband, however, listened to the book on audiotape when he was driving cross country and really really liked it. When the movie came out we bought it and he often watched it when he came in from a run or a hitch. Something in the movie spoke to him. As for the flip flopping. . .I think there are a couple of things going on here:

1. its supposed to indicate deep passion in our culture, harkening back to the early days of film when a sound slap by a woman was often followed by an impassioned kiss --- silly yes, but when that's the cultural depiction of romance, that's what you get.

2. I think it can also depict loving a flawed and broken person -- in a sense it is supposed to represent love triumphing over and healing the brokenness of another. Love conquers all.

3. Its a plot device -- have to love the protagonists, want them to win and there has to be conflict so all story writers are told -- man against man, man against woman, man against self, man against nature, man against God, etc. etc.

How do men compete with that??? Honesty, integrity, kindness, fidelity, affection, prayer and conviction. Genuineness always wins out in the end, if the object of one's affection has the wits and maturity to understand the difference between fiction and reality.

May 12th 2013 new
(quote) Eric-97921 said:


Hi Daniel--personally, I prefer your approach, though I am not prone to wait for 6 months of friendship to start dating a woman. That's because I've found that chemistry, which frankly is important, usually develops fairly quickly for me and either is there or it isn't. My understanding is that for women developing attraction takes longer. That's probably a good thing that the sexes are different in that regard!!

Here's my take--stick to your general principles on this one but avoid rigid rules. The young adult Catholic scene is riddled with so many rules, guides, and whatnot, that we are all supposed to automatically intuit that it can drive a person crazy! One approach I'm trying which may help with what you are trying to do is this: take the initiative to be generous and giving with your friends. Take the lead and organize parties, events, groups to volunteer etc... (and treat *everyone* with respect, so that it doesn't turn into high school). This way, there are events where you *do* something together rather than just go to a talk or happy hour where you're a passive consumer. The former, incidentally, are the types of things where chemistry develops more readily for me personally. Also, look for opportunities where you can take a leadership role. It helps you develop as a person and may be an opportunity to develop friendships with members of both sexes.

What do the women think of this approach? Question is timely for me, as I've been thinking about the same thing.

Eric
Well I say 6 months as what I find to be the general amount of time, given the average person's schedule, that it takes for me to really feel like I know a person. I agree chemistry can happen a lot faster, but I just recently did my first musical and in about a month I had chemistry with several women on that cast, doesn't mean I know them all that well and I know enough about a lot of them to know a relationship wouldn't possibly end in marriage. Chemistry doesn't seem like a reliable thing on which to base feelings or relationships. Yeah it's important, but it's not the only thing and it really feels like a lot of people regard it way too highly.

I recently had the opportunity to rush in with a good friend with whom I had great chemistry, but more she than I needed to take our time. She realized it some of the time, but wanted to rush in and follow the chemistry. When I delayed, she developed chemistry with someone else. She said she really cared about me, but chemistry was the motivating factor as she is already serious about another guy, because he would kiss her and I wouldn't. Chemistry and emotions don't seem very reliable to me and seems like it could cloud rational thought.

And I saw another thread talking about something a little similar. It's a real shame that people view so many things as strict rules rather than sound advice. It's easier to follow sage advice rather than be handcuffed by strict rules. Being a good Catholic and having respect for the other person held in higher regard than your desire for gratification should be all you need to have a successful, holy relationship.

May 12th 2013 new
(quote) Linda-756196 said: Daniel, 25 years ago, I was best friends with a man who was nearly six years younger than I am. He asked me out 19 times before I finally said yes. I was afraid of ruining the friendship. We eloped 4 months later and had 23 years together before he passed away. We stayed always best friends. He made me laugh and he just got me. I couldn't have a relationship without that again. Friendship is glue.
Linda, thank you for your witness. I would love to find one day what you had. Nice to know its possible and not just a novel idea. Unfortunate I know my best friend is not the one for me. She views me asking her out as a breach of the trust we have and stopped talking to me for a month the last time I asked her out. There are also a few fundamental differences in what we want in a relationship (marriage and kids) and while I think she'd eventually change her mind, it's not my place to change her.
May 12th 2013 new

I would hope that the average man wants a woman who's not a nut case.

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