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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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May 18th 2013 new
Yes, the intent of an older or sterile couple is not to avoid pregnancy. It is scientifically unlikely of course. They, however, are doing nothing to avoid conceiving a child therefore, they are open to God's creative work and the rest is in HIS hands.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Naomi-698107 said: As of 2003 there were 41,000 different Protestant denominations. I've seen numbers going as high as 56,000. And there are quite a good number who do not care much for the anti-fornication message found in scripture. I have met oodles and oodles and oodles of Protestants who have no problem with it, and I'm not just talking about the lay persons, I'm talking about ministers and pastors and leaders of these churches. Heck, I've met a professor of Christian theology, himself a professed christian of some baptist flavour who stated that there was no christlogical or scriptural evidence against sacramental homosexual "marriage". He likewise said that Protestatns should be concerned with waiting till marriage, not because of any scriptural aversion against fornication, but because of hte risk of STDs and pregnancy. Protestantism is at its very core a heresy built on foundations of lies and blasphemies. Do not be surprised if at branches of Protestantism that really do spit in the face of Christian truth. Heck, there are Christian atheists out there, people who beelive in the teachings of Christ, but don't beleive in a God, likewise christian witches. You'd be shocked to the point of vomiting into the back of your mouth what's out there under the banner of "Christian".
Welcome to the real world, Naomi. While I really admire your great stance and strong belief in the Catholic faith, I think you should also open your eyes to what some of our Catholic Priests does if you are to attack harshly and with judgment, our other Christian brothers and sisters.

I can see you are very intelligent. But sometimes, reading your posts, I can't help but be worried. Because in your effort to defend our Catholic Church, you seem to neglect the fact that it has also its own faults; thus, is also vulnerable to criticism. Also, as I know, our Catholic Church does not encourage debate with other faith.

Hence, I would suggest that before attacking other Christian denominations, that we closely check our Church History. That way, we gain better understanding. In understanding, we will learn to focus more in deepening our faith, that will hopefully help others see the Light in us and hopefully come back to the Catholic faith.

Otherwise, if we keep attacking, then where is the spirit of love here which Christ taught us and is continuing to teach us through His words?
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Lesil-- Your answers are to reflect your current beliefs, not your past beliefs or failings. Our Catholic faith is not one that is to be believed 'ala carte' or 'cafeteria style' -- we don't get to pick and choose which parts to keep and which to toss out. So, to those people who want to 'equally yoked' to another full Catholic, answering 'yes' to all 7/7 is important and meaningful. We all sin -- no one can claim not to -- but we should all be striving to not sin -- we shouldn't feel that some sins are 'less sinful' than others and therefore ok to partake in. No one here is helping anyone by ok-ing sex outside of marriage -- your mortal soul is in danger! It would be wrong to condone the sin of premarital sex -- and it is not compassionate to say nothing when good people like you mistakenly think that sex outside marriage is more a personal choice than the sin it is. And pointing out that this is a sin IS compassionate -- because others care about your soul and where it will end up. You say you would rather be single than married to a man who wants you because you believe in all the Church's teachings -- would you rather be married to a man who does not care about your soul and gaining heaven?
Thanks for your comment.

I do know that the Catholic faith is not ala carte or cafeteria style. But that is what I believe now. Must I click Yes even if partly I am ok with it and a part of me says, I must say no because I know I am not yet into that stage? I am sure even God will not be happy if I am not being true to myself and click Yes when I am not fully believing. I would be the first child in the parable then who said Yes to the father but didnt go to the field, instead of the one who said No but went afterwards.

I may not be in the stage yet where your faith or others are now. But noone has the right to judge me or others just because we are not yet where you are now.

We have our own spiritual journey. Some days, I may change my two Nos to Yesses. But for now, I am not comfortable with it and I am sure, God will guide me till I say Yes and He'll understand why I am still not yet answering Yes. That is why He gave us free will. He will not force us. He will guide us. Lead Us. But will never force us. That is what I know. What is important to Him is that I am taking steps to deepening my faith in Him, however small they seem are to others' standards.

I do know some are just concerned and care for my/our soul. But instead of being judgmental, why not show the Light with compassionate? There is just some language here that really saddens me. I will not point out each, but my point is, I hope, instead of focusing too much in the teachings and dogmas, we focus more in showing compassion and love. Minding a little bit about the language they use will help others, especially those outside the Catholic faith, to embrace our teachings. I am concerned about this and I shared what I feel because if I, a Catholic who happens to not completely believe all the Church teachings, feels judged, how much more are those who don't yet? How can we guide others to embrace our faith if our way is judgmental instead of compassionate?

That is my point for speaking up.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Lesil, the question is not whether you failed and sinned in the past. The question is not whether you are a virgin. The question is whether you assent to what the Church teaches to be true with authority.

Do you assent that the marital embrace is only to be enjoyed licitly in marriage? Do you assent that fornication, that is, the use of the marital embrace outside of marital bonds, is a grave sin? Do you assent that adultery, that is, the use of the marital embrace together with one who is bound by marriage to another or when one's self is so bound to another, is a grave sin? etc.

If you assent to the Church's teaching, then you are deceiving potential suitors by your "no" answer as to whether you accept the Church's teaching regarding pre-marital relations.
Thanks, Chelsea to your response.

As of this time, I am still not comfortable to accepting Yes. And that will be a lie if I change it.

I still pray that someday, I will. I know God will guide me. But for now, I still have questions and issues (partly because of my past and my present belief right now). I am still in a journey where I have to fully understand it before I click Yes.

Until then, I would be deceiving my potential suitors by my Yes just to conform.

And at this time, what I need (and others) is understanding that we are not yet in the same stage of your journey. That is what we need, not judgment.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi Lesil,
Let me begin by saying that I could hear the truth and anxiety in your post and I understand. ...It's all about MERCY! That is Our Sweet Saviour's message. DIVINE MERCY....sigh...:) :) Go and sin no more! And if you fall....GET UP!!! I know that you do or you wouldn't be on a Catholic website trying to hook up with like minded people. Once again, I am sorry you felt judged. Our Lord just want us Prodigal daughter's to run into His arms and receive all the graces He has for us, if we have repented and have a firm purpose of amendment. Just because you/we have engaged in pre-marital sex does not mean we believe in it. It just means we majorly blew it, need to RUN to confession and go and sin no more. We are here for you.

Thanks, Elizabeth for your kind words.

As I mentioned in my previous responses, I am not yet in that stage where you are at now. I am not saying Yes because I am still not fully believing in it and I have explained why. And I do pray that someday I will. But for now, I cannot click Yes yet because I still have to resolve the issues I have with that question, partly because of my past, and how I see it now.

So far, I only have two Nos. Someday, I hope to click Yes to that. But until then, it will be a No or I will all be lying to all of you, but most of all to myself and to God.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Meg-920823 said: Lesil, God love you. You and all of us are children of God. He is a God of Divine Mercy. Do you want to avoid sins of impurity? If you do, then that is what the question is about? If you want to avoid fornication and are willing to give it your best, that is what is important. You can do it and your dating partner can do it with a positive and willing attitude.

God bless and keep you!
Thanks, Meg...

I am comforted with your words. We need more of you. :)

Unfortunately, I still can't click Yes. I still have issues with the question, partly because of my past, and what i currently believe now.

But yes, I am praying and hoping I will one day click Yes to it. I want to click Yes because I fully believe in it. If it will be a partial Yes, then I will still have to keep my response as No.

God bless!
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: Thanks, Meg...

I am comforted with your words. We need more of you. :)

Unfortunately, I still can't click Yes. I still have issues with the question, partly because of my past, and what i currently believe now.

But yes, I am praying and hoping I will one day click Yes to it. I want to click Yes because I fully believe in it. If it will be a partial Yes, then I will still have to keep my response as No.

God bless!
Lesil,
I can relate to how you think and feel so well. I think we are both blessed and cursed by the way we think and how we approach and arrive at our final decisions. I sense your struggle and want you to know that who you are today is exactly who God wants you to be....yourself! You are who you are....God made...for a reason. Accept it with open arms. I have come to accept and be at ease with this in myself because I have had enough years to look back and see how it worked out in my own life. I pray that you, too, will come to be at ease with who you are and how you approach life. Don't rush or panic...God will be there no matter how long you may need.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Here's an article I want everyone to read -- it helps us understand hoe NOT to teach about sex. I'm posting it here but want to post it other places too so more people see it.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/barefootandpregnant/2013/05/sloppy-seconds-sex-ed.html
Thanks Rachel for sharing! I am sharing this too! :)

If one reads though the comments in this post, this is what I meant about being too focused on the teachings, or too judgmental. Like it's wrong and all.

Let's all hope to show love, instead of indifference or judgment. Be more like Christ, who said: " Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." If we do this often, perhaps, we could lead others to believe in our faith and we could lead one more soul to heaven.

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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Sheila-953093 said: Lesil,
I can relate to how you think and feel so well. I think we are both blessed and cursed by the way we think and how we approach and arrive at our final decisions. I sense your struggle and want you to know that who you are today is exactly who God wants you to be....yourself! You are who you are....God made...for a reason. Accept it with open arms. I have come to accept and be at ease with this in myself because I have had enough years to look back and see how it worked out in my own life. I pray that you, too, will come to be at ease with who you are and how you approach life. Don't rush or panic...God will be there no matter how long you may need.
Why, thanks, Shiela for your beautiful words!!! This is exactly what we need more.

I do accept that I am exactly what I am today because it is what God wants me to be. I have still a long journey to take and God is guiding me in each step. There will be moments that I will fail, but I am comforted with the knowledge that I have a God who is merciful and just.

I am not worried about my current state. I am blessed, more than I could ever hope for. I am completely at ease with what and who I am. That is the reason I responded No. To be honest, I actually clicked Yes twice or maybe thrice. But had to change it after each because I don't feel right. Now, I do. Someday, in God's perfect time, I may say Yes to all.

I shared what I feel about not responding Yes because I was seeking others who said Yes to understand where we are coming from. To be more open and compassionate, instead of being judgmental or indifferent to those who said No.

God speed!
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Naomi-698107 said: I had to explain the "sin of persumption" to a Hindu girl who had catholic friends like that. They'd really given her the wrong end of the stick on the whole Confession thing. Never mind the fact they coudl die between fornication and confession, then where would they be? I dislike the notion that people are so ignorant in this day and age. My parents were from the sexual revolution generation, and as such, have a lot non-catholic ideas. I was taught those ideas. The same ideas were prevelant throughout my entire Catholic schooling. Even heard them from priests. The whole fornication was bad back then because of risk of pregnancy and STDs but now we don't have to worry. An old man could only be comfortable if he had a virgin daughter to sell into marriage. So fornication is okay now. Contraception is respsonible parenting. What does some old pope know? These ideas never sat well with me. Then I found the Internet. I understood why such ideas are wrong. Anyone who has access to this site, has access to the internet. There's nothing stopping them from learning the Truth. They owe it to themselves. This isn't some backwater village in Africa or some oppressed communist Chinese region. There's no excuse for the modern, Western Catholic to not and understand their faith. If people have time to troll through profiles on a singles' site they have time to Google the catechism. Seesh, its not theoretical physics.
Naomi, you are spot on, as usual, in your replies on all this.
You are right of course, there is no excuse (if there ever was) for the current ignorance and arrogance within our Church regarding the Truth and Teachings. People are just closed minded and stop searching for further truth as soon as they see something they are comfortable with. This is spiritual laziness - if not spiritual suicide. We should continue to seach till we find the Truth, and when found we must continue to go deeper, and never stop.

Lesil, criticisms of other faiths/sects are valid if based on truth and fact, regardless of any personsal failings of any people or clergy within the Church. Even the sex/abuse scandals in the Church hiearchy, atrocious as they are, do not affect the basic truths and dogmas of the Church and/or scripture. Just as we must love the sinner and hate the sin, we must love the Church and hate any sins made in or thoughout the Church.
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