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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: As of this time, I am still not comfortable to accepting Yes. And that will be a lie if I change it.
If you are baptized, you do not have the convenience of bowing out of assent due to discomfort. If you are baptized and confirmed, then relying merely upon comfort to decide what to believe is very recriminating. Confirmation is supposed to confer strength in confessing the name (i.e., the authority) of Jesus Christ...as we are taught in the Bull of Union with the Armenians:

'The effect of this sacrament is that a Christian should boldly confess the name of Christ, since the Holy Spirit is given in this sacrament for strengthening just as he was given to the Apostles on the day of Pentecost. Therefore the candidate is enjoined on the forehead, which is the seat of shame, not to shrink from confessing the name of Christ and especially His Cross, which is a stumbling block for Jews and a folly for Gentiles, according to the Apostle, and for this reason he is signed with the Sign of the Cross.'

If you start deciding what you'll believe based upon your personal comfort level, then you're failing to confess Christ's authority in correcting human action away from sins against the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony...and ultimately defining what is true based upon your own subjective whim.

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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: Thanks Rachel for sharing! I am sharing this too! :)

If one reads though the comments in this post, this is what I meant about being too focused on the teachings, or too judgmental. Like it's wrong and all.

Let's all hope to show love, instead of indifference or judgment. Be more like Christ, who said: " Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more." If we do this often, perhaps, we could lead others to believe in our faith and we could lead one more soul to heaven.

Are you suggesting that it is a sin to enact a spiritual work of mercy, namely to counsel the doubtful? and besides that...How can one be too focused on the Trinity (which is a teaching of Christ)?
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May 18th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: As someone who responded "No" to two of the faith questions, let me share with you my rationale for responding "No" to the topic being discussed here.

While I believe that a man and a woman should wait before marriage, I just happen to be one of the "fallen" angels, who believed a man, fell in love and had made love outside marriage. Did it make me less of a woman? Less of a God's child? It gave me heartaches. There were moments of depression and low-self-esteem. But never less as a God's child.

I responded "No" because I do not want to mislead my potential partner, if he is out here. I am just no longer a virgin. Period. As much as I can, I would like to wait. But I couldn't completely say, I would not in the future, I am no saint.

So must I say "Yes" to get approval from a man who wants a virgin woman or a woman who believes in this? I say, that man alone, if it is one of his main criteria of finding a wife, while I respect his beliefs, does not fit to be my husband. I'd rather remain single than be with someone who wants me because I am a virgin or because I believed in all of the Church' teachings.

So my question again - if you can't wait till marriage, will it make me less of a person? As I mentioned, I'll be vulnerable or prone to pain and suffering. But I believe I would not be less of a Godly person. I'd still be the same Lesil, a wonderful child of God, who is becoming the person He designed me to be.

To those who strongly judged those of us who engaged or believe in pre-marital sex, while I respect that you have such patience and strong faith to wait before marriage, please instead of being judgmental or indifferent to your brothers and sisters who do not, kindly show love and understanding. Practice love and compassion.

Peace and God bless us.
I personally don't think that there is any woman out there that is single and attractive and still a virgin in her mid thirties (other than a woman in the religious life). If you said yes to all the questions that doesn't mean that you are a virgin.

Because someone may have used you, you should still have faith in what Jesus taught. Don't feel guilty for your sin; it's not always your fault when you sin. It's good to take responsibility but you don't have to have the guilt over your head for the rest of your life for what someone else may have done to you.

I have not limited my search to women that say yes to all the faith questions since I can judge for myself the moral qualities of a woman by looking at other things in her profile.
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May 19th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: Welcome to the real world, Naomi. While I really admire your great stance and strong belief in the Catholic faith, I think you should also open your eyes to what some of our Catholic Priests does if you are to attack harshly and with judgment, our other Christian brothers and sisters.

I can see you are very intelligent. But sometimes, reading your posts, I can't help but be worried. Because in your effort to defend our Catholic Church, you seem to neglect the fact that it has also its own faults; thus, is also vulnerable to criticism. Also, as I know, our Catholic Church does not encourage debate with other faith.

Hence, I would suggest that before attacking other Christian denominations, that we closely check our Church History. That way, we gain better understanding. In understanding, we will learn to focus more in deepening our faith, that will hopefully help others see the Light in us and hopefully come back to the Catholic faith.

Otherwise, if we keep attacking, then where is the spirit of love here which Christ taught us and is continuing to teach us through His words?
I'm well aware of teh faults of the Clergy. I'm using ranting about them as much as I am about the people who have the wrong end of the stick.

It is because of the misunderstanding of the Vat II documents that we're in half the mess we're in. For decades homosexuals, paedophiles and sexual deviants have been infiltrating our clergy teaching heresy to the faithful. How can any of us expect the lay community to express proper moral behaviour when out of the clergy is support for the very sins they are committing?

The Church has a checked history, full of blood shed, torture, war, political interference and evil. All of these things are caused by the wounds of sin, not the Church proper.

Calling Protestantism a heresy is a truthful statement.

It is better that a person is in the Catholic Church, for all her manmade faults than in a Protestant one. You will always find the Truth in Catholic teaching, Google is very useful. The priest spouting heresy and nonsense from teh pulpit each Sunday is responsible for the instruction and subsquent failings of his community, but the he is not preaching Catholic Truth is he? Whereas the Protestant sitting in their Protestant worship hall on Sunday will be hearing the opinions of a pastor that are faulty and what recourse do they have? Where do they go? If they dont' agree with it they'll just head across the street. If they really don't agree with what they find they'll eventually find Catholicism. For the Protestant they will have a much harder time finding the Truth or even questioning what they are hearing. I've seen this time and time again amongst my Protestant friends, and its quite sad.

In all charity I request that you learn what Judgement truly is the context of "don't do it". Judgement is taking the seat of God and proclaiming where one is going to spend eternity. If I said "Protestants are heretics and they are all going to Hell" THAT would be judgement. If you re-read my posts you will find I am not Judging anyone. I am merely pointing out the simple Truth of the matter, Protestantism is more dangerous to the Christian community than some homosexual priest telling his parish its okay to use contraception.

Its not about attack. Its about spreading the Truth. Time for Catholics to put on their big kid pants and stop trying to sugar coat everything. It does no one any favours in the long run.
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May 19th 2013 new
(quote) Lesil-840134 said: If one reads though the comments in this post, this is what I meant about being too focused on the teachings, or too judgmental. Like it's wrong and all.



There is a difference between having had sex outside marriage and believing it is morally acceptable to have sex outside marriage. The article Rachel linked to is discussing the former, as well as how we teach children about sexual morality; most of the forum discussions such as this one are primarily about the latter.

I assume the author of the article his not familiar with Theology of the Body, and I am very certain anyone who is familiar with TotB and teaches abstinence-only sex education according to TotB will not be using the analogies the author of the article objects to (spitting a chewed-up Oreo in a glass of water, etc.)

The Blessed Virgin revealed to the children at Fatima that more souls are lost due to sins against purity than any other. And that was in 1917 -- long before people were bombarded with immoral sexuality almost constantly every day of their lives. It is extremely important that we teach our young people the moral principles related to sexuality and the dangers of ignoring them.

One thing that is easy to lose sight of is that while God does forgive our sins and we should not hold the past sins of others against them (are we better than God?), there can be permanent effects from those sins. For example, it is much easier to avoid sex when you've never had it than after you have. And even one sexual encounter can have long-term or permanent physical and emotional impact on a person. It is important that people understand this so they don't develop the "I can just go to confession and the slate is wiped clean" mentality But the author is right -- teaching this the wrong way can back-fire and cause permanent harm.

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May 19th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-461057 said: Pre-marital sex and the answer to that question hurts no one else on this site except the person who engages in it.
I wish it were that simple. Grave sins not only harm those who commit the sins, but also their families -- and the entire mystical body of Christ -- just as the original sin has harmed every person (save 2) who ever lived.

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May 19th 2013 new
Nicely said, Chelsea. You get a Gold Star!
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May 19th 2013 new
(quote) Chelsea-743484 said: Are you suggesting that it is a sin to enact a spiritual work of mercy, namely to counsel the doubtful? and besides that...How can one be too focused on the Trinity (which is a teaching of Christ)?
Chelsea, I am not suggesting that it is a sin to counsel. But rather, for us to look closely at how we counselsor treat others as we spread God's words.

Oftentimes, when we knows we are right, we focus on being right, instead of being loving.

Like someone responded that she would rather her child/ren associate with Catholics only, with minimum contact with non-believers (Jews, Buddhist, Protestants, Muslims, etc.). I am very concerned with that. That statement teacher division. Is that the loving way to teach your child?

When that child grows up, that's what he'll practice - they are non-believers, I most not associate with them. They are sinners, I am good, the chosen one, I must keep away from them, lest I will be stained.

Just imagine how that child will grow then he goes out and realize the lies that were taught. Because certainly, while others may have not known the Catholic faith, most people practice the most important teaching Jesus Christ Himself taught us - And this it the new commandment - love your neighbours as I have loved You. Jesus Christ did not even say "as you love yourself" but as He has loved us!

Now, is it loving to teach division? Example, to not allow non-Catholic (or someone who committed suicide) a burial in a Catholic Cemetery? What if the place has no other cemetery except the one for Catholics (like in my village)? Note that the family is already grieving from the loss; now they have to suffer for the consequences of their deceased loved ones. Is it love? If Jesus Christ is still with us today, I am sure he'd say, let them bury it here.

There are other stories I could share, but my point is, when someone is not as mature as your faith or has not known the Truth yet, please try to see how you relate to that person. Treat them with compassion and love. Sometimes, you feel that what you are doing is loving, but note that I wouldn't have raised my feelings if I didnt notice some comments that are really saddening.

Let me end it with a note from the news today:

At a vigil on Saturday evening, (POpe) Francis said Catholics must become courageous and seek out the people who need help the most rather than sitting around, dissecting theology.

Stay blessed.

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May 21st 2013 new
Hi Lesil,

Thank you for your participation. You've, in part, answered one of my questions here.

By the way, I think I and every other reader here would agree that, based on your responses, you should have answered, "YES" to the question, since you obviously believe that pre-marital sex is wrong, but aqcknowledge, as we all do, human weakness.

My view of the subject, as I may have stated earlier, is that I also am weak, and need a woman who wants to work with me on the issue. I've failed in the past, and without God's help, partially expressed through a woman's instrumentality in working with God, I'd no doubt, fail again.

In confession, that great gift from God, given us through His Church, I've come to realize that one of the most important parts of the Act of Contrition, is "I firmly resolve, WITH THE HELP OF THEY GRACE, ........"

So please keep up the good work, the fine humility, the sensitive conscience, and find a good man, with the help of God's Grace who will treat you as you ought to be treated. God bless you and all of us.
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May 21st 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: What led the woman to this judgement: conversations with the men in question, second-hand reports from other women, or answers to the CM profile faith questions? And how many is "many"? In any event, it's not just a problem with nen: many women respond "No" to the faith question on premarital sex, and I have seen more than a few forum posts from men regarding female CM members, some of them who responded "Yes" to the premarital sex faith question, who indicated a desire for sexual intimacy early in the relationship (1st/2nd/3rd date). This in no way excuses the men for doing likewise -- they need to be the leader at all times, especially when others are venturing off-track -- but it certainly isn't fair to either men or women to gloss over a significant part of the problem. As for the answers to the faith questions in the CM profiles: There are many people who answer "No" to the premarital sex faith question for reasons that are not intuitively obvious, such as past behavior (not wanting to mislead others about their past) and concerns that they may not be able to resist temptations in a relationship, even though they agree with the teaching. It is true that the question does not ask about either of these factors, but in various forum discussions over the 8 5/6 years I have been here many people have reported answering the question "No" for those reasons. Thus, one can't accurately assess either personal or group assent to that teaching based solely on the profile responses.
good thoughts Jerry
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