Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

This room is for the discussion of prayer life, posting prayers of the Church and prayer requests.

Saint Jude is the patron saint of lost causes and desperate situations.
Learn more: Saint Jude

May 15 new


Great response to this question, infact you seem to be reading my mind. Christians mis-guidely think that if other people want to do the wrong thing, then who are we to stop them. That is a very unChristian idea as it reeks of indifference. We forget that we are called to love everyone, and God most of all. God has taught us that homosexuality is wrong, then how can we say that it doesn't matter if this becomes legal ie we don't care how much God is offended by the sins of others. How does that show love for God? And what of those who do the wrong thing (both straight and gay)? When you love someone aren't you supposed to tell them when they are going wrong? As Christians we have to shake off our indifferent and apathetic attitudes to what is going on around us. Please all, we need to practise what we preach and we need to preach much more to the people that we know and to a few that we don't smile . If we imitate the genuine, gentle and caring stance that Christ approached people, we will be able spread His message. It is so important that we do because there are so many who would love to believe in the message of the Church, but need someone to make it real to them and that could be anyone of us on this forum. We can all make the difference that changes the future through Christ our Lord, Amen.

(Quote) Gary-936836 said: It harms the people involved, and by extension, harms others. Same-sex acts, especially a...
(Quote) Gary-936836 said:

It harms the people involved, and by extension, harms others. Same-sex acts, especially among males, are inherently damaging to the body. I don't know how graphically detailed I'm allowed to get on the forum here, but let's just say that it can be damaging on both "active" and "passive" partners. Disease spreads more easily because it involves direct access to the digestive tract. This is why sexually active, polyamorous, homosexual males tend to fall prey to STDs more frequently than others. But even in a monogamous relationship, it's physically damaging.

Polgamy (multiple marriages) or polyamory (having multiple lovers, married or otherwise) are damaging to the sexual economy in general. Hey, if all the ridiculously good-looking men had three wives, what would the other two-thirds of straight men do? Ugh. A mismatch of available males and available females leads to serious social unrest -- this is what China is going to have to deal with as a result of aborting girls so much.

If people do not reproduce at a stable rate, the economy will be put in jeopardy. If there is not an average of 2.1 births per woman, we can't maintain the current economic system. California is liberal enough to not reproduce adequately. And guess what? That means there are going to be more old people and not enough workers. Which means there's gonna be more retired folk on Social Security but a smaller pool of workers to tax for Social Security. Which means there will be more taxes per worker. Which means workers make less. Which means they spend less. And workers not spending, for the economy, is like a heart not beating. All this because of a lack of stable population growth or even keeping the current population or shrinking slowly.

We can thank the contraceptive mentality for this, but this is why sexual activity should remain open to procreation. Otherwise, society falls apart with regard to health, morals, and the economy.

And all this is completely apart from the legal problem with so-called gay "marriage". No persons are being discriminated against by not passing gay marriage. A straight guy and a gay guy are both equally capable of marrying a woman, and both are equally restricted from marrying other men. As individuals, nobody is being discriminated against. However, the question is: are all couples or relationships equal? Relationships are not persons before the law, and thus do not have the benefit of the 14th amendment.

--hide--

May 15 new

(Quote) Dan-656122 said: Just wait until the lawsuits come, then it will be a personal attack on your parish and our...
(Quote) Dan-656122 said:



Just wait until the lawsuits come, then it will be a personal attack on your parish and our Archbishop, priests, deacons, consecrated, laity. The day will come if this law isn't countered soon.

--hide--


Don't anticipate that such a day will ever come. Pray with faith and it will never arrive. Our God is great and He is able to save those who serve Him. Amen

May 15 new

(Quote) Barbara-929536 said: Great response to this question, infact you seem to be reading my mind. Christians mis-guid...
(Quote) Barbara-929536 said:


Great response to this question, infact you seem to be reading my mind. Christians mis-guidely think that if other people want to do the wrong thing, then who are we to stop them. That is a very unChristian idea as it reeks of indifference. We forget that we are called to love everyone, and God most of all. God has taught us that homosexuality is wrong, then how can we say that it doesn't matter if this becomes legal ie we don't care how much God is offended by the sins of others. How does that show love for God? And what of those who do the wrong thing (both straight and gay)? When you love someone aren't you supposed to tell them when they are going wrong? As Christians we have to shake off our indifferent and apathetic attitudes to what is going on around us. Please all, we need to practise what we preach and we need to preach much more to the people that we know and to a few that we don't . If we imitate the genuine, gentle and caring stance that Christ approached people, we will be able spread His message. It is so important that we do because there are so many who would love to believe in the message of the Church, but need someone to make it real to them and that could be anyone of us on this forum. We can all make the difference that changes the future through Christ our Lord, Amen.

--hide--

Well said, Barbara! One of the major things that has drawn me to the Church is that Catholicism is stubbornly charitable. No, we're all sinners. Sure. But the Catholic Church refuses to accept that people just will never be persuaded to kindness or decent and fair conduct. It's a very stubborn approach that rests on believing wholeheartedly that we are all made in God's image and all possessed of inherent dignity and worth because of it -- and we preach whenever people act in ways that compromise their dignity or the dignity of others.

It's all based on love, and is just a much better approach than the turn-or-burn talk one hears from Baptists, etc.

May 15 new

(Quote) Paul-302787 said: "When (or where?) orthodoxy becomes optional, orthodoxy becomes forbidden." Father Neuh...
(Quote) Paul-302787 said: "When (or where?) orthodoxy becomes optional, orthodoxy becomes forbidden."

Father Neuhaus

It won't be very long before Catholics and other Christians are persecuted for preaching out against this type of "marriage".
--hide--


I love Fr. Neuhas! May he rest in peace. That is soo true! as St. paul said " What is good will be looked upon as bad and what is bad will be seen as good" (I'm paraphrasing, of course) But we can see it unfolding before our eyes... :(

May 16 new

Hi Gary,


I figured I will open a can of worms and reply to your post:-).

I think you are exactly right about the falling birth rates and economics consequences. But, since teenage girls and boys are getting quite obese in the US, birth rates will fall down even without contraception since obesity leads to much higher rates of infertility, then diabetes, hypertension during pregnancy, premature deliveries with all its complications on infant mortality and so on, BUT noone in the church is talking about this effect on procreation for some reason, even though there is more severely obese teenagers than gay teens in the US.
On the other hand, I heard a priest compare gay to alcoholics and I almost walked out...

As I was reading this forum, I kept asking myself: OK, God created gay people and he created straight people.
In medicine, we are way beyond the belief that being gay is a psychiatric condition that we should try and fix.

Are any people on CM still thinking that they are normal since they are straight while gay are abnormal ?
What if you find a wife on CM, then you end up having kids and one of your kids turns out to have gay sexual orientation ?


Just wondering, do any people on CM have gay relatives ? I dont, but what if I did ?

I grew up in Slovakia where all this is tabu....but, straight divorce is tabu as well. I did not know word annullment until I moved here.

Katarina









May 16 new

(Quote) Katarina-331534 said: Hi Gary, I figured I will open a can of worms and reply to your post:-). I...
(Quote) Katarina-331534 said:

Hi Gary,


I figured I will open a can of worms and reply to your post:-).

I think you are exactly right about the falling birth rates and economics consequences. But, since teenage girls and boys are getting quite obese in the US, birth rates will fall down even without contraception since obesity leads to much higher rates of infertility, then diabetes, hypertension during pregnancy, premature deliveries with all its complications on infant mortality and so on, BUT noone in the church is talking about this effect on procreation for some reason, even though there is more severely obese teenagers than gay teens in the US.
On the other hand, I heard a priest compare gay to alcoholics and I almost walked out...

As I was reading this forum, I kept asking myself: OK, God created gay people and he created straight people.
In medicine, we are way beyond the belief that being gay is a psychiatric condition that we should try and fix.

Are any people on CM still thinking that they are normal since they are straight while gay are abnormal ?
What if you find a wife on CM, then you end up having kids and one of your kids turns out to have gay sexual orientation ?
Just wondering, do any people on CM have gay relatives ? I dont, but what if I did ?
I grew up in Slovakia where all this is tabu....but, straight divorce is tabu as well. I did not know word annullment until I moved here.
Katarina

--hide--

Hi, Katarina. Obesity is a very legitimate concern. Not just does it lower fertility, but it also increases risks in pregnancy and childbirth. There seems to be a connection between obesity in mothers and the need for a c-section delivery, which is kind of a dangerous thing. A nurse commenter on the National "Catholic" Reporter explained this to me as one reason she supports contraceptive coverage. More contraception means less births. Less births means less dangerous c-sections. The logic works, but that doesn't make it right.

How can we approach the topic of obesity without causing serious damage to the self-esteem of obese women and men? It is a fine line. Exactly the same fine line as it is with addressing homosexuality. We all are broken people and none of us are really 100% alright (if you are, don't worry -- you'll be canonized within a century). How can we say that someone is in an unnatural state that infringes his/her natural dignity, but say it in a way that doesn't kill their self-esteem? It's really, really hard to do that! I just don't know.

I mark myself down as "average", but really it depends on who you ask. My doc says a BMI of 30 is a bit high, so I should lose 20-30 pounds. I personally am not ashamed or disturbed of that. I was born with heart conditions that prevented me from exercising very much until I had surgery at 14, so I never developed exercising habits. What disturbs me is not my appearance, but the idea that my body is actually converting some measure of testosterone into estrogen. I'm a dude. I don't need more estrogen.

As for homosexuality: you probably don't apply that logic consistently. Nobody seriously, consistently says "you were born this way. God made you this way. So this is perfectly fine."

If a little girl was born with one arm instead of two, you would not say that God just wanted to make her with one arm. You would say she was born missing an arm. Why would you say that? Because you presume a standard of having two arms. And, yes, sometimes someone is born contrary to that standard. I was born with a hole in my heart and it wasn't pretty. Nobody should say that that was therefore normal for Gary. No. God works through our difficulties, and it may indeed be that He formed me in the womb to be exactly this way, but even then...

The comparison of homosexuality to alcoholism is that in both cases you have someone with very strong impulses towards something that is not good. And, also, reparative therapy only seems to have the same success rate as Alcoholics Anonymous (about 30% tops).

In short: the problem with your argument that God created them gay, God doesn't make mistakes, therefore gay is OK" is this: by that logic, there is no such thing as a congenital defect at all.

Yet we all do recognize that congenital defects exist -- except when it comes to sexual confusion. Somehow on that one area we want to say that there is no defect in anyone's sexuality. That's crazy talk, though. If there were no defects in our sexuality, there would be no need for Catholic Match because we all would either be religious or would easily find a mate.

And, no, being straight doesn't make us automatically OK in the sex department. That's not the teaching of the Church nor of the Bible. Heterosexuals can go to hell just as easily for sins against the marriage bed. Satan is an equal opportunity destroyer.

May 16 new
(quote) Gary-936836 said: It harms the people involved, and by extension, harms others. Same-sex acts, especially among males, are inherently damaging to the body. I don't know how graphically detailed I'm allowed to get on the forum here, but let's just say that it can be damaging on both "active" and "passive" partners. Disease spreads more easily because it involves direct access to the digestive tract. This is why sexually active, polyamorous, homosexual males tend to fall prey to STDs more frequently than others. But even in a monogamous relationship, it's physically damaging. Polgamy (multiple marriages) or polyamory (having multiple lovers, married or otherwise) are damaging to the sexual economy in general. Hey, if all the ridiculously good-looking men had three wives, what would the other two-thirds of straight men do? Ugh. A mismatch of available males and available females leads to serious social unrest -- this is what China is going to have to deal with as a result of aborting girls so much. If people do not reproduce at a stable rate, the economy will be put in jeopardy. If there is not an average of 2.1 births per woman, we can't maintain the current economic system. California is liberal enough to not reproduce adequately. And guess what? That means there are going to be more old people and not enough workers. Which means there's gonna be more retired folk on Social Security but a smaller pool of workers to tax for Social Security. Which means there will be more taxes per worker. Which means workers make less. Which means they spend less. And workers not spending, for the economy, is like a heart not beating. All this because of a lack of stable population growth or even keeping the current population or shrinking slowly. We can thank the contraceptive mentality for this, but this is why sexual activity should remain open to procreation. Otherwise, society falls apart with regard to health, morals, and the economy. And all this is completely apart from the legal problem with so-called gay "marriage". No persons are being discriminated against by not passing gay marriage. A straight guy and a gay guy are both equally capable of marrying a woman, and both are equally restricted from marrying other men. As individuals, nobody is being discriminated against. However, the question is: are all couples or relationships equal? Relationships are not persons before the law, and thus do not have the benefit of the 14th amendment.
Thank you Gary. I actually accept all of your views. However, I think we disagree in our understanding of the founding principles of this nation.

The founders of this nation set out to establish the worlds first truly secular state. As long as you did not directly affect someone elses life or property, you had all the freedom you wanted. This means freedom even to do something immoral. I think gay marriage is a freedom that is in accordance with this principle and hence should be legal. (though completely immoral.)

My actual problem with all of this criticism is that people do not place the blame where it is actually due, namely: A secular nation state like the USA cannot exist without corruption of its morals. This is not because of some crazy liberal judge or a lawmaker. This is built into the very foundation of this country.
May 16 new
(quote) Paul-302787 said: "When (or where?) orthodoxy becomes optional, orthodoxy becomes forbidden."

Father Neuhaus

It won't be very long before Catholics and other Christians are persecuted for preaching out against this type of "marriage".
This is where we get into the problem of government "marrying" people, versus true marriage (in the Church.) I wish government would remove itself from the subject of marriage. It has proven it is inept in so many other areas, so it is not surprising that it would call a relationship between two members of the same gender "marriage."
May 16 new
Howdy, Dave.

I believe that the government exists to promote the common good, which is a concept that can be accessed without appealing to religion. As such, the government can and should intervene in some circumstances when the economy is going to tank or diseases will spread due to faulty sexual behavior. A secular nation cannot criminalize homosexuality, I don't think, but a secular nation can and should avoid actively promoting it. Same goes for contraception. The two things should be treated like alcohol or tobacco -- social non-goods that cannot be banned, but can be slightly discouraged. (In fact, contraception could be banned, but that's not my point here.)

None of my arguments presumed a non-secular state, actually.

May 16 new
(quote) Gary-936836 said: Howdy, Dave.

I believe that the government exists to promote the common good, which is a concept that can be accessed without appealing to religion. As such, the government can and should intervene in some circumstances when the economy is going to tank or diseases will spread due to faulty sexual behavior. A secular nation cannot criminalize homosexuality, I don't think, but a secular nation can and should avoid actively promoting it. Same goes for contraception. The two things should be treated like alcohol or tobacco -- social non-goods that cannot be banned, but can be slightly discouraged. (In fact, contraception could be banned, but that's not my point here.)

None of my arguments presumed a non-secular state, actually.

Hi Gary. Good point but how do you determine what is good in a secular state?

If you do not have a standard by which to judge if a certain action is good or not, the ones who are in power (or the majority) get to decide. This is the way the country is set up.

I dont believe the government is actively promoting gay marriage. It is just permitting it. Gay marriage was until recently illegally outlawed in this country and government rectifying this error.

I do not mean to attack you, I am just trying to find out how others understand these things. You have some good insights.
Posts 31 - 40 of 46