(quote) Dave-915458 said: Paul, I am curious what you think is the difference between
a secular state, and one without a State Religion. I thought that they were the
same. It is possible I might be using the wrong term here. Also, by the word
secular, I did not mean Atheist. However the result of implementing a secular
state is that it leads to Atheism.
I am curious what evidence is there that any of the
important founders where Christian. To my understanding almost all of them were
either Deists or Masons or both: George Washington (Master Mason) Thomas
Jefferson (Deist with Masonic connections), Benjamin Franklin (Grand Master
Mason) James Madison (Possibly a Mason) etc. In the thousands of letters
written by Washington, the name
Jesus Christ never appears. He instead only uses non-Providential Deistic
terms like the Almighty Being who rules the universe, the invisible Hand,
the benign Parent of the Human Race. Washington
even swore his presidential oath on the Masonic Bible, consecrated the Capitol
according to a Masonic ritual, had a Masonic funeral, and you can view his
Masonic square today in the Capitol. You need to realize that at the time of
the Founders, Atheism was regarded as abominable. D'Holbach, the first truly
Atheistic philosopher lived about that time. I am sure if this Atheism was more
acceptable the founders would have been more openly Atheist.
It is possible Paul that you know more than me and I am open
to changing my views. However, I am curious to know where I am wrong.
Being a Mason does not preclude someone from being a Christian. A Catholic is prohibited from being a Mason, but that does not prevent a Catholic from being one. It just puts is eternal life in grave jeopardy.
All Christians are Deists; i.e. they believe in God; but not all deists are Christian.
A secular state is one that officially denies the existence of God and acts accordingly. God has absolutely no place in any of its activities or official functions. Religion might be tolerated but only to the extent that it does not intrude into the public arena; i.e. one is free to worship privately but no outward signs are allowed anywhere in public.
There is no doubt that over the last 40 years, our country has fast been transforming itself into a secular state. But before that, and even today nominally, although no particular religion was or is promoted by the Government, it still acknowledges that God exists, many official actions, even meetings of the Houses of Congress as well as the Supreme Court are opened with a prayer; God is still called upon to witness although a person's non-belief is also honored.
Churches are still allowed to exist openly, are still given special privileges; i.e.untaxed, exempt from many laws.
It is true that lawsuits by private individuals and organizations have attacked many oif these and been supported by Courts (in many areas lawsuits have succeeded in silencing Church bells, for instance) and that government itself has begun to take direct action such as Obummer Care.
Nevertheless, religion still has a special place enshrined in the Constitution. Like all rights though, even that special status is under fierce attack now.