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This room is for the discussion of current events,cultural issues and politics especially in relation to Catholic values.

Saint Thomas More was martyred during the Protestant Reformation for standing firm in the Faith and not recognizing the King of England as the Supreme Head of the Church.
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May 26 new
(quote) John-221057 said: The only people being enjoined to government welfare are the mega banks. Taxpayer dollars that American workers earned were meant to save the very banks that are enslaving the world
Yep...the Anglo-American empire is that of finance capital. People just don't understand that usury is connected to pretty much every other evil in the world. Capital that could be used to build industry is instead fed into banks which use that capital to subvert the world. The history of the United States is filled with successes and failures at trying to move the country away from the London and New York empire. The United States became a world power because it managed it to break way from London and direct capital toward building an agro-industrial economy. Same with Germany between 1870 and 1900 and Japan after the Meiji restoration. Church teaching emphasizes the solidarity of economic interests. The interests of finance capital subvert the solidarity or harmony of economic interests by creating or exacerbating class conflicts. Thus, we see the left/right charade, the proletariat vs. bourgeoisie, labor unions against industry, etc.

JFK was breaking out of the Anglo-American mentality before he was assassinated. Juan Peron and Getulio Vargas in South America were other economic nationalists. Real economic nationalist leaders often are assassinated or overthrown. The empire doesn't like leaders who promote the general welfare.
May 26 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: I guess in your mind it wasn't Peron, both Juan and Evita, the dictators, who had nothing to do with Argentina's economic destruction.

As the old saying goes, those who ignore history .... !!

So lets fight the phantoms of Wall Street conspiracies.
Those "phantoms" are very real, and are in charge of the "too big to fail - or jail" bankster rackets that are trashing our nation today.

They are also the elite who, by engaging as arbiters of "arbitrary absolutes", are the cause for events such as the demoralization of the Boy and Girl Scouts (noted in other threads). The lead person for that was the CEO for AT&T.
May 26 new
(quote) Steven-706921 said: Those "phantoms" are very real, and are in charge of the "too big to fail - or jail" bankster rackets that are trashing our nation today.

They are also the elite who, by engaging as arbiters of "arbitrary absolutes", are the cause for events such as the demoralization of the Boy and Girl Scouts (noted in other threads). The lead person for that was the CEO for AT&T.
Look at the "laissez-faire" Catholics who support all this evil - e.g., Raymond Arroyo's buddy Fr. Sirico, a propaganda tool of wealthy Calvinist families in Michigan. The Catholic right is just as insane as the Catholic left.
May 26 new
(quote) John-221057 said: Yes, but what about when ordinary people don't have a chance to make a living because of cronyism? Should CEOs have the right to set their own salaries and arrange for big severance pays from other people's money after a few years when they step down?

That's the problem right there and that's what Pope Francis is talking about. The system that exists right now is not a free market. What we have now is not capitalism, but cronyism.

I'd suggest taking a look at the principles of Catholic social teaching. These 3 in particular stand out for me:

Option for the Poor and Vulnerable A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a society marred by deepening divisions between rich and poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment (Mt 25:31-46) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor and vulnerable first. The Dignity of Work and the Rights of Workers The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in Gods creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers must be respectedthe right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, to private property, and to economic initiative. Solidarity We are one human family whatever our national, racial, ethnic, economic, and ideological differences. We are our brothers and sisters keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that if you want peace, work for justice. The Gospel calls us to be peacemakers. Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we promote peace in a world surrounded by violence and conflict.

Source (and the rest): http://www.catholiccharitiesusa.org/catholic-tradition/the-principles-of-catholic-social-teaching/

Pope Francis is upholding the Church's teaching, and I think many people on these forums need to familiarize themselves with what the Catholic Church teaches about helping the most vulnerable instead of calling them leaches.


I appreciate your suggestion, however I have spend my whole life (twice your years) dedicated to the Catholic Church with the Church the very heart of my life. Liberals have perverted the meaning of social teachings, they use it to promote their own agendas..murdering God's most vulnerable children in the womb, TAKING AWAY vulnerable people's ability to WANT to work by taking care of them and not giving them opportunity....these are things that the government is doing that has NOTHING to do with the CEO's. It is very different than Catholic social teaching. I feel that Pope Francis is a gift from God to our world right now and am thankful for what he has said. I am replying to what you said...I think you don't get it.
May 26 new
(quote) Laura-56149 said: I appreciate your suggestion, however I have spend my whole life (twice your years) dedicated to the Catholic Church with the Church the very heart of my life. Liberals have perverted the meaning of social teachings, they use it to promote their own agendas..murdering God's most vulnerable children in the womb, TAKING AWAY vulnerable people's ability to WANT to work by taking care of them and not giving them opportunity....these are things that the government is doing that has NOTHING to do with the CEO's. It is very different than Catholic social teaching. I feel that Pope Francis is a gift from God to our world right now and am thankful for what he has said. I am replying to what you said...I think you don't get it.
I agree that the problem is liberalism in that our political system is completely dominated by it. You have two choices: either left-wing liberalism or right-wing liberalism. Of course you lose either way but you get to vote for which way you lose. What a choice! That's what democracy has become.

"Government" is just a battlefield of interests, not some powerful robot that has become self-aware. The question is whether government should serve a parasitic class of CEOs and wealthy financier-elites or the general welfare. I'm going with the latter.
May 27 new
Two words, Rerum Novarum. Just a few excerpts.

"The following duties bind the wealthy owner and the employer: not to look upon their work people as their bondsmen, but to respect in every man his dignity as a person ennobled by Christian character. They are reminded that, according to natural reason and Christian philosophy, working for gain is creditable, not shameful, to a man, since it enables him to earn an honorable livelihood; but to misuse men as though they were things in the pursuit of gain, or to value them solely for their physical powers - that is truly shameful and inhuman." --Pope Leo XIII Rerum Novarum Par. 20

"Therefore, those whom fortune favors are warned that riches do not bring freedom from sorrow and are of no avail for eternal happiness, but rather are obstacles; that the rich should tremble at the threatenings of Jesus Christ - threatenings so unwonted in the mouth of our Lord - and that a most strict account must be given to the Supreme Judge for all we possess." --Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, Par. 22

"The foremost duty, therefore, of the rulers of the State should be to make sure that the laws and institutions, the general character and administration of the commonwealth, shall be such as of themselves to realize public well-being and private prosperity. Now a State chiefly prospers and thrives through moral rule, well-regulated family life, respect for religion and justice, the moderation and fair imposing of public taxes, the progress of the arts and of trade, the abundant yield of the land-through everything, in fact, which makes the citizens better and happier. Hereby, then, it lies in the power of a ruler to benefit every class in the State, and amongst the rest to promote to the utmost the interests of the poor; and this in virtue of his office, and without being open to suspicion of undue interference - since it is the province of the commonwealth to serve the common good. And the more that is done for the benefit of the working classes by the general laws of the country, the less need will there be to seek for special means to relieve them. " --Pope Leo XIII, Rerum Novarum, Par. 32




May 28 new
(quote) Steve-650539 said: You are misrepresenting what people on this board are saying. No one on this board disputes that it is our responsibility as Catholics to care for the poor. What people on this board do dispute is the fact that that care should come from our bloated government which is led by a man who uses the power of the state to punish his enemies and permanently enjoin certain groups of people to government welfare. Charity and welfare are not the same thing.

In response to how peachy keen Scandinavia is...Have you seen the news lately? Riots for several days in Sweden. Equality can not be bought with a government budget line item.
I'm not misrepresenting anything, I'm simply stating what the Church teaches. Part of our responsibility as Catholics in caring for the poor is electing people to government who will uphold their responsibility in caring for the least fortunate citizens.

The problem is that governments around the world have been infiltrated by the mega banks. They infiltrated Britain, the U.S., and France. They infiltrated Greece and set them up to fall. This is the threat to the world that needs to be dealt with before they enslave us all.
May 28 new
(quote) Laura-56149 said: I appreciate your suggestion, however I have spend my whole life (twice your years) dedicated to the Catholic Church with the Church the very heart of my life. Liberals have perverted the meaning of social teachings, they use it to promote their own agendas..murdering God's most vulnerable children in the womb, TAKING AWAY vulnerable people's ability to WANT to work by taking care of them and not giving them opportunity....these are things that the government is doing that has NOTHING to do with the CEO's. It is very different than Catholic social teaching. I feel that Pope Francis is a gift from God to our world right now and am thankful for what he has said. I am replying to what you said...I think you don't get it.
I don't doubt that you have a good heart and great intentions, but what I sense is that you're still caught up in the whole right vs left, liberal vs conservative paradigm. It took me awhile to break out of that myself and a long time for me to accept that things are as they are.

The problem is that the mega banks have infiltrated governments around the world and have set up a model of corporate welfare. When they are about to go under because of the crises that they create, billions of taxpayer dollars go into bailing them out, along with gigantic severance pay. What about giving incentives for big banks to WANT to work and operate responsibly, to serve instead of enslave?

The reality is that these people are sending as all down a road to serfdom, and they've infiltrated both the Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. The Reagan, Bush Sr., Clinton, Bush Jr., and Obama administrations were all packed with people from Wall Street. American Presidents are nothing but puppets nowadays, it's the banksters lurking in the shadows that are pulling the strings.
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