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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

May 31st 2013 new
I am going to add my 2 cents in as well. I work 3p-11:30 and for a while, I was placed in a situation in which going to mass was impossible. Because of my schedule, I only have one day in which I can go to church, now, and that is Saturday evenings, I know we have an obligation to go to mass, but keep in mind, we are suppose to be Christ like, but we have our own faults. I feel that the ones that choose not to go go to mass or unable to get to mass, should be prayed for. For they are not able to receive the body and blood of Jesus.
May 31st 2013 new
(quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi Sheila,
I have a family member like that. She drops off her daughter at school then attends 8am Mass (which she is always late for, since her daughter is suppose to be at school @ 8am and is always late) she says she goes to this Mass because there is no one there, it's short, and that way she doesn't get bored. You can't even talk to this person. I asked her when she told me this "Well do you go to the Sat. nite vigil or Sunday mass?" and she replied "No! I go 5 days a week that's enough, I put in my time, my weekends are MY time!!!" Mind you, she is unemployed. So if I told her it was a mortal sin (which I am sure she knows) she would argue with me and get super defensive. I know it's my duty and I know it is one of the spiritual works of mercy "to inform the ignorant" but it won't make a difference. This is someone you can not even disagree with or they will shut you out and not call you for months. So, I have given up. I do know it's a mortal sin and when it has happened to me I know I need to get to confession PRONTO! I am so glad you started this thread. People need to know it's not ok as a Catholic to miss weekly mass. I wish more people would see it as just that. He gives us 168 hours a week. Can we not give Him one?
My relative flatly states that she prefers the non-crowd environment of weekday Mass. Ray, in an earlier response post to me, suggested that perhaps my relative suffers from agoraphobia. This is not the case...she is just the way she is. She is a very special person....caring, giving and loving, etc...just not interested in the hub-bub and confusion of Sunday or Saturday Mass! And she firmly believes that God understands and accepts her choice! Out of context of the "rules" it is kind of hard to argue with her. After all... on the Sunday Mass issue, God gets her attention 5 days a week, when He only gets mine once. Further, He has better odds of getting genuine undivided attention from her on one of her 5 days than He does from me on my one!! eyepopping angel
May 31st 2013 new
When all is said and done, God alone knows what is in the hearts of people. We are not asked to judge anyone else. Oh! That's right! God tells us NOT to judge. Is it better to go to Sunday Mass and leave early? Or how about go to Mass and then cut someone off in the parking lot? Folks, I have seen many people in the Church during Sunday Mass who are not "present." We do not know what is going on within the lives of others, so it is best to simply pray lovingly that God gives them the grace to find peace.
Jun 1st 2013 new
I agree very much
Jun 1st 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Sorry,but St Vincent had and has nothing to do with averting the apocalypse.

The fact that any miracle was performed through his intersession attests to nothing having to do with the end times but only to his special relationship,with God.

Although he was a successful preacher, he traveled only in parts of Western Europe, including Spain (his homeland), France, Switzerland and Northern Italy. He never traveled in the majority of Europe, nor in Englang Ireland or what we now know as the British Isles. He never set foot in Northern Europe, Southern Italy, Germany, Austria, Poland, European Russia, or the Slavic nations.

He had a hand, but not the decisive one, in ending the Great Western Schism. Even if he had done so single handedly, that would hardly qualify as avoiding, in your words, the Apocalypse or allowing the world to continue. That claim is patent nonsense.

And he would be one of the exceptions that proves the rule that most Saints, even today, only affect their immediate locale during their lifetime. St. Francis would be another exception. But those exceptions are few and far between. Most Saints have their biggest impact after they are dead.

It does a severe injustice to the Church and to the cause of evangilization when we Catholics spout exaggerated stories or use unnecessary hyperbole to describe the accomplishments of God's heros we honor as Saints.

Thank you for at least somewhat acknowledging your overblown hyperbole in your original post. Which proves my point that daily Mass attendance by a large numbers of the laity at any point in Church History is uncommon and isolated to single locales for relatively short periods.

Throughout history, sad to say, even the required weekly attendance at mass by the majority of the laity is unusual.

Since your point has no basis in fact, I did not miss it. In fact I addressed the false nature of your statement.

The fact that even a single person with a grueling work schedule can find time to go to Mass wheterh Daily or just in fulfillment of the Sunday obligation is enough to demonstrate that we have no excuse to miss Mass on Sunday except for illness and those instances when one's work schedule truly make it impossible to do so.
Overblown? Hardly. The mere fact that such devotion to the Mass did exist with such people (even if it is only within those "exceptions" that you keep referring to) is enough to verify my point. And if my point had no basis in fact to you, it would have meant that there were NO instances of medieval peasants doing it. But with you agreeing at least in part to it (thanks to those "exceptions" again) you have contradicted yourself when you say that it is false and has no basis in fact. There is a basis in fact with my point. Just not as much as you would like from your perception.

It also does a sever injustice to the Church and the cause of evangelization when we Catholics spout skepticism, cynicism and misinformation about the Saints and the practices of the Church. It's hardly an attractive method of winning converts, but I hope it works out for you.

You think that the limits of St. Vincent's influence and message were limited to his travels? Crowds in the tens of thousands would hear him preach regularly, and people would travel for days to hear him preach. When they returned back to their homes, his message would spread and the tales of his miracles would travel with them. It's just a short trip over the Channel from Normandy to England, or a bridge crossing over the Rhine to reach northern Europe. Even if he did not actually step foot in those lands, his words surely did. Our Lord never preached in Rome, yet His words were spoken there by Peter and Paul, and the center of God's rightful worship is now there.

At what point did I say that the Great Schism was the singular event that was driving Europe towards the Apocalypse? Any actual work that he did in ending the Schism was only tangentially related to his work of reconverting Europe and preventing the rise of the Antichrist. God was not going to end the world because there were two (or three) popes. He was going to end the world because of the iniquities of the "Christian" people. The Great Schism was certainly a contributing factor to their sins, but it was not, and is not, the determining factor for the faithfulness of the people. As proof of this, we only have one reigning pope today, yet apostasy and sin abounds as never before in the Church.

Why did Our Lord and the Apostles perform miracles? "[E]ven if you do not believe me, believe in the works . . ." (John 10:38). The same was true of St. Vincent. He performed more miracles than any person during his time since the days of the Apostles, and those miracles always accompanied his message of repentance to stave off the Judgment Day. It was a conditional prophecy that he preached. The prophet Jonah was in the same vein when he preached to Nineveh, and Our Lady herself prophesied in this manner at Fatima. In the cases of Nineveh and St. Vincent's Europe, the sinful people heeded the message- through the preaching of the prophets who were sent to call them to repentance and to speak of the consequences of their failure to do so- and God's wrath was averted. We did not heed Our Lady at Fatima, and the present state of the world and Church is a consequence of her conditional prophecy.

It seems that you are essentially denying St. Vincent's message: that he was the messenger of the Apocalypse spoken of in Revelation 14:6, and that it was near at hand unless men repented through his preaching. He preached this message every day of his ministerial life and it was verified by multitudinous daily miracles. You are essentially calling him either deluded or a liar. And if you call him deluded or a liar, then you are calling God deluded or a liar for verifying Vincent's message of "repentance or destruction" with more miracles than anyone since the Apostles during his time. I will not stand for your slander and blasphemy. Have the last word if you want.
Jun 1st 2013 new
(quote) Christine-960631 said: I just have to put my two cents in!
For 15 years, I worked 7am-7pm shift that included every other weekend. I truly missed going to Sunday Mass. I recorded the Mass for shut ins with my VCR when that was possible.
I taught 7th grade CCD, was active in the funeral luncheon ministry, was a leader in the Sunday scripture study group, all while missing Mass every other week! After a few years I started going to Mass an alternate day of the week.
The point is, my 'work' required me to care for the sick and fragile members of the Body of Christ. It is in the belief that a nursing ministry requires the sacrifice of missing Sunday Mass. My kids went with their caregiver's family while I was at work.
So... Why we miss is probably more important than when we miss.

Thank you for this perspective from your experience. Some of the hardest hardliners on a lot of issues live in theory and don't understand the everyday pressures and time commitments a lot of people face in their everyday lives because their lives are different. There are also a lot of very valid reasons why women have jobs, which somehow escapes some people who also like to live in theory.

I am not advocating missing weekly Mass, as it is an obligation for Catholics, but it is God who sees everything and who will be the judge, and not other laypeople whose daily grind may be different from those of their brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jun 1st 2013 new
No one's work schedule should require the person to miss Sunday Mass. If that is the case, it is the schedule that must be changed. That is a matter of justice. We don't go to Mass simply to fulfill an obligation, we go to Mass because it is good for us. We don't go to Mass because God needs us there, it is because we need God. No one, I repeat, no one should have work hours that prevent attendance at Sunday Mass sometime between Saturday night and Sunday night. It is like food; in New York State, workers are required by law to be given a half hour meal break if they work more than six consecutive hours. Is not Mass equally important? Those of you who insist that you "have to work" hours that completely prevent attendance at Sunday Mass may well have a legitimate case of religious discrimination that should be discussed with an attorney who specializes in employment issues. If we don't stand up for our rights, we eventually lose them, not only for ourselves but for our fellow Catholics. When a person accepts an unjust work schedule, he also makes it more difficult for his brothers and sisters in the faith to resist having such things forced on them as well. Of course, there are always unusual and unplanned circumstances that may arise, but no one, no one, should be denied his right to attend Sunday Mass as a matter of habit. And of course, there are situations where one must mind an infirm relative, but even then, in charity, friends and other relatives should pitch in to allow such a person to have a break and attend Sunday Mass on a regular basis. Once again, it is a matter of charity and justice, not just serving an unreasonable God who likes to make life miserable for us. He tells us to worship Him because it is good for us; He hard-coded it into our nature.
Jun 1st 2013 new
I know work schedules can play a role. I always try to go to mass at the very least on Saturdays and Sundays, but also throughout the week. Years ago I worked nights, but I always tried to make it to Saturdays and then once a week during the week.

Jun 2nd 2013 new
(quote) Andrew-290721 said: No one's work schedule should require the person to miss Sunday Mass. If that is the case, it is the schedule that must be changed. That is a matter of justice....
I worked on an ambulance for over 8 years. There is no way to "adjust" a work schedule for an ambulance crew that will guarantee being off at a given time. Emergencies happen when they happen, and they take as long as they take. I made it to Mass as often as I could, but I still couldn't hit every Sunday.
Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) Andrew-290721 said: No one's work schedule should require the person to miss Sunday Mass. If that is the case, it is the schedule that must be changed. That is a matter of justice. We don't go to Mass simply to fulfill an obligation, we go to Mass because it is good for us. We don't go to Mass because God needs us there, it is because we need God. No one, I repeat, no one should have work hours that prevent attendance at Sunday Mass sometime between Saturday night and Sunday night. It is like food; in New York State, workers are required by law to be given a half hour meal break if they work more than six consecutive hours. Is not Mass equally important? Those of you who insist that you "have to work" hours that completely prevent attendance at Sunday Mass may well have a legitimate case of religious discrimination that should be discussed with an attorney who specializes in employment issues. If we don't stand up for our rights, we eventually lose them, not only for ourselves but for our fellow Catholics. When a person accepts an unjust work schedule, he also makes it more difficult for his brothers and sisters in the faith to resist having such things forced on them as well. Of course, there are always unusual and unplanned circumstances that may arise, but no one, no one, should be denied his right to attend Sunday Mass as a matter of habit. And of course, there are situations where one must mind an infirm relative, but even then, in charity, friends and other relatives should pitch in to allow such a person to have a break and attend Sunday Mass on a regular basis. Once again, it is a matter of charity and justice, not just serving an unreasonable God who likes to make life miserable for us. He tells us to worship Him because it is good for us; He hard-coded it into our nature.
I worked seven days a week for a former employer several years ago because she needed reliable help daily with the seasonal workers. After I began to recognize my situation being one outside the Church and work to come back I had to tell her that I could no longer work on Sundays. She wasn't happy because that meant she had to find someone to cover the Sunday shifts, but I could not profess Catholicism and work regularly/ordinarily on Sundays (and Holy Days of Obligation) in good conscience.

After I moved to Kansas, I had to interview for new jobs. The employers I interviewed with didn't actually believe that I wouldn't work Sundays or Holy Days. In fact, after I did get work, my employer tried to schedule me for a Sunday...to test me, I guess. I had to cross off my name as unavailable and explain to her once again that not working ordinarily on Sundays was a term of employment. She reluctantly conceded.

Once that became a hostile working environment for entirely unrelated reasons, I interviewed for new positions with other corporations. One interviewer actually told me after the interview that he wouldn't even consider me, since I wouldn't waver from needing a single set day off each week. Where I finally settled, the employer agreed to my terms, but then told me that I'd have to work on Holy Days. I said plainly that the employment agreement made didn't allow her to dictate in contradiction to the terms we made and the issue went away.

I find that if a person actually says "no" and means it, employers listen. Of course, there are demands for help which are out of the ordinary that take attention on Sundays, but we should not make them the norm without some good or grave reason.

At some point, though, in absence of a good reason, if a person doesn't actually appear to be living what he says he believes...can he really be thought by others to believe what he says??
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