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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Jun 3rd 2013 new
(quote) John-336509 said: Right! Because rural America doesn't exist, it's all a question of being smart! Nowhere in the U.S. does there exist a county with only a single parish that only has a couple of Masses. ..
What that does: makes balancing the two obligations harder.

What that doesn't do: change which one is your primary calling, job, duty, and obligation.

What that also doesn't do: change the penalty inherent in depriving oneself of the Eucharist, or the punishment that comes from willfully ignoring the Sunday obligation.

There is a reason it's not called the Sunday suggestion or exhortation or recommendation.
Jun 4th 2013 new
What should be and what is are often two very different things.

If you are not aware, some fire fighters work 24-hour shifts and health care workers and police may work the same 12-hour shift on back-to-back days, so it is entirely possible that when you factor in the need to sleep they may not be able to attend Mass on either a Saturday evening or Sunday.
Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Gary-936836 said: Good stuff here.

If you're smart enough to be in a medical job such as EMT, you should also have the foresight to make a point of knowing the service times of various parishes close to home and closer to wherever you're stationed at work. Doing this shows that you're making every effort to at least know the "emergency exits" as it were. Extenuating circumstances exist, but they aren't really extenuating circumstances if they are every other week, as Andrew said so aptly.

As for the "Priesthood of all Believers", a true doctrine that is misunderstood by Protestants, this means that you have a job already as [non-sacerdotal] priest. And that job is to participate in liturgy by being present and involved at Mass. This supercedes any other job you have and nothing else may conventionally take precedence over it. Ever.
I'm curious: have either you or Andrew ever worked in any of these positions? Do either of you have more than anecdotal knowledge of the shift scheduling and the work day routine?

In some organizations it may be possible to get to Mass during the work day while on duty; in many others it is not, or may depend on the willingness of a partner, or perhaps an entire crew, to cooperate.

Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: What should be and what is are often two very different things.

If you are not aware, some fire fighters work 24-hour shifts and health care workers and police may work the same 12-hour shift on back-to-back days, so it is entirely possible that when you factor in the need to sleep they may not be able to attend Mass on either a Saturday evening or Sunday.
A frustrating situation, and one I think probably is best deferred to the local magisterium to provide guidance on. Perhaps an alternate manner of fulfilling the obligation is possible in such circumstances, since those jobs are good and necessary for society.

Unfortunately, I know a faithful nurse who used to do pediatric ICU overnight. She sometimes could not make it to Sunday services. As a Protestant, she has no specific Sunday obligation, but she genuinely cares and frequently made it to services, anyway (perhaps when she knew she had Monday off to sleep?). Sometimes you can push yourself and sometimes you can't. Such is life.
Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Gary-936836 said: What that also doesn't do: change the penalty inherent in depriving oneself of the Eucharist, or the punishment that comes from willfully ignoring the Sunday obligation.

There is a reason it's not called the Sunday suggestion or exhortation or recommendation.
The Church recognizes the necessity for certain type of work to be done on Sunday and the valid need for workers in those jobs to miss their obligation when working and has provisions for dealing with same.

Jun 4th 2013 new
Jerry, you are right! I work night shift at the hospital and if I don't get off on time, it would be too late to make mass. I have thought I could make it okay and tried but being sleep deprived, I woke up with my head on the person sitting next to me and that was quite embarrassing. My next attempt at Sunday mass was to sit next to the wall but I again woke up with my head resting on the wall and unsure if I was snoring. I felt it was disrespectful to God and the people around me as well so now Thursday morning mass is my Sunday obligation. It is not a perfect substitute but God understands and makes allowances for his children.

Thank you for seeing our dilemma.

Eileen
Jun 4th 2013 new
I think too the point is that some communities do not have mass every week. We have that here in Oklahoma, where some of the mission parishes have only communion services for most of the Sundays in the month. The obligation to attend of course remains, but there have been times in history as well as today with the priest shortage, especially, outside the highly populated cities, lack of Mass being available to the faithful. Even here in Oklahoma, some of the priests had to ride a circuit and one might not have a priest available for weeks or months.

In some respects it might be beneficial to the tepid to suffer a loss of easily accessible mass, in order to grasp its importance in their lives. The same people who don't think much about their obligation, will be among the first to complain should they suddenly find themselves without the options at all. We have one priest and two deacons and three active parishes, two are missions. The smallest mission has Mass once a month and communion services the other three. We have two Saturday evening masses at the main parish, one at five and one at seven in Spanish, our other mission has mass at 8am on Sunday, then our priest hurries back here for Mass at eleven, three Sundays a month and a communion service on the week that the smallest mission has their Mass.

The discussion reminds me of how I came to understand what a drought really truly is. When we lived in the city, and I grew up in the city, drought meant we watered our lawn every other day. When we moved to the country, I learned what drought really meant. . .cattle ponds completely dried up and water trucks having to bring water in to keep animals hydrated, or animals having to be sold because they couldn't be cared for in the incredible heat. Pasture land dried up like tinder and miles and miles of land and forest winter brown. A scary thing but it totally made me really appreciate turning on that tap and having water.
Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Lauren-927923 said: I think too the point is that some communities do not have mass every week. We have that here in Oklahoma, where some of the mission parishes have only communion services for most of the Sundays in the month. The obligation to attend of course remains, but there have been times in history as well as today with the priest shortage, especially, outside the highly populated cities, lack of Mass being available to the faithful. Even here in Oklahoma, some of the priests had to ride a circuit and one might not have a priest available for weeks or months.

In some respects it might be beneficial to the tepid to suffer a loss of easily accessible mass, in order to grasp its importance in their lives. The same people who don't think much about their obligation, will be among the first to complain should they suddenly find themselves without the options at all. We have one priest and two deacons and three active parishes, two are missions. The smallest mission has Mass once a month and communion services the other three. We have two Saturday evening masses at the main parish, one at five and one at seven in Spanish, our other mission has mass at 8am on Sunday, then our priest hurries back here for Mass at eleven, three Sundays a month and a communion service on the week that the smallest mission has their Mass.

The discussion reminds me of how I came to understand what a drought really truly is. When we lived in the city, and I grew up in the city, drought meant we watered our lawn every other day. When we moved to the country, I learned what drought really meant. . .cattle ponds completely dried up and water trucks having to bring water in to keep animals hydrated, or animals having to be sold because they couldn't be cared for in the incredible heat. Pasture land dried up like tinder and miles and miles of land and forest winter brown. A scary thing but it totally made me really appreciate turning on that tap and having water.
I forget the exact terminology for this. This is when one is excused from the obligation without having fulfilled it, right?

I love your analogy to drought. Right on. The Church does not just experience a shortage of priests, but suffers from it. It is an empty spot that longs to be filled, and perhaps that in and of itself may be used by God as a wakeup call.

Up in Edmond, there's plenty of parishes to attend. I am actually quite spoiled, and I know it. Despite the number of masses and parishes, however, it is incredibly difficult for a convert to get any pastoral attention. Oh, I can't take the Eucharist. OK, I understand that. Oh, I can't go to confession (or at least can't get absolution). OK, I understand that. Well, what can I do? Uh... sit on my hands and do nothing until August when RCIA starts? Yeah. No sit-and-have-coffee-and-get-over-fear-of-priests sort of evangelism. No "see? We Catholics don't bite" sort of thing.

The reason for that, I don't doubt, is that the clergy is stretched too thin. I will choose to love the Church anyway in good times and bad.
Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Eileen-890971 said: Jerry, you are right! I work night shift at the hospital and if I don't get off on time, it would be too late to make mass. I have thought I could make it okay and tried but being sleep deprived, I woke up with my head on the person sitting next to me and that was quite embarrassing. My next attempt at Sunday mass was to sit next to the wall but I again woke up with my head resting on the wall and unsure if I was snoring. I felt it was disrespectful to God and the people around me as well so now Thursday morning mass is my Sunday obligation. It is not a perfect substitute but God understands and makes allowances for his children.

Thank you for seeing our dilemma.

Eileen
You're welcome, Eileen. And as bad as it is for a person to fall asleep during Mass, it is even worse if they have to work Sunday evening as well and are unable to perform on their job due to sleep deprivation.

And for those who work a 7a-7p shift on both Sat and Sun (not uncommon in hospitals), in many locations there simply are no Masses they can attend.

Jun 4th 2013 new
(quote) Christine-960631 said: When all is said and done, God alone knows what is in the hearts of people. We are not asked to judge anyone else. Oh! That's right! God tells us NOT to judge. Is it better to go to Sunday Mass and leave early? Or how about go to Mass and then cut someone off in the parking lot? Folks, I have seen many people in the Church during Sunday Mass who are not "present." We do not know what is going on within the lives of others, so it is best to simply pray lovingly that God gives them the grace to find peace.
Couldn't agree more.
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