Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match!

A place to learn, mingle, and share

Devoted to discussion pertaining to those issues which are specifically relevant to people 45+. Topics must have a specific perspective of people in this age group for it to be on topic.

The story of Abraham and Sarah is told in chapters 11-25 of the book of Genesis.
Learn More:Abraham & Sarah

Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Dave-104327 said: I don't avoid prayer. My prayers are prayers of Thanksgiving, Adoration and Reparation. I rarely utter a prayer of Petition and even then I feel like I'm just putting a coin in a slot machine and hoping.
To be clear, I was not questioning your personal behavior -- only the statement I quoted in the previous response

I think it's time to make a distinction here: if you simply want to state that you don't believe that prayers of intercession or petition are effective, that's one thing.

Making declarative statements that they don't work (a statement of fact versus opinion), especially with completely unsubstantiated appeals to statistics and logical reasoning, is contradicting the teaching of the Church on prayer, Obstinately posting in rejection of the teachings of the Church is not permitted on the CM forums. It seems to me we have reached that point.

Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: There is no more logic here than there is mathematics: it is, plain and simple, an unsupported personal opinion.

Human behavior is very unpredictable, so it is impossible to know what impact his mother's prayers had on Augustine. However, there are many, many examples of medical cases, where prognosis is much more deterministic, of completely unexplainables cures occurring in association with prayers to various saint or candidates for canonization.

Can you propose a valid line of reasoning to support your contention that behavior is refractory from influence by prayer while physical health is not?

There is no argument about unexplainable cures happening. But they also happen spontaneously when no one is praying for the individual. Ergo, prayer has no affect on the outcomes.
Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Dave-104327 said: There is no argument about unexplainable cures happening. But they also happen spontaneously when no one is praying for the individual. Ergo, prayer has no affect on the outcomes.
How can you possibly know no one is praying for the individual? Even if in fact no one is praying for them by name, there are many who pray frequently for those most in need, those in distress, etc.



Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: How can you possibly know no one is praying for the individual? Even if in fact no one is praying for them by name, there are many who pray frequently for those most in need, those in distress, etc.



Jerry,

You really need to get out more AND do some secular reading. Here are two references to keep you busy so you can quite bothering people on the forums shhh
Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Dave-104327 said: Jerry,

You really need to get out more AND do some secular reading. Here are two references to keep you busy so you can quite bothering people on the forums
Woops...forgot the sources.

www.secularhumanism.org

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Dave-104327 said: Woops...forgot the sources.

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?page=avalos_17_3&section=library

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2802370/

Secular-humanist match is down the hall, 2nd door on the left. You might find a better reception there.

Are you really surprised to find Catholics defending the faith on Catholic Match?

Aug 11th 2013 new
Please excuse me for entering the 45+ room, but I feel the need to respond.

Seriously Dave? Secular humanism? If this is where you find your inspiration, do you not see a contradiction between this and Catholic values and teaching? I'm sure there are websites for agnostics and atheists too, and no doubt the wiccans have a web presence also. But this is a Catholic community. If this is where you are at with your journey, please do not lead the rest of the CM community astray.

Believe it or not Dave, many folks on CM are well aware of what values are represented by secular humanism, by hedonism, by Satanism, by atheism, by agnosticism, and so on, but still choose to be Catholic. We do not need to "get out more".

Aug 11th 2013 new


Why are there so many arguements on this,,a Catholic site..? Even prayer on this simple thread is growing into a negative context by some....
..Can't people express opinions without fear of negative reprisal....If we feel someone is wrong,,,why not educate in a warm, caring, kind manner..??

Often what is perceived by some to be negative criticism is met in return with negative criticism and it escalates and escalates...

Negativity and assumed harsh criticism breeds itself..If we disagree,,let's do it in a manner that perhaps a loving, merciful Jesus would do it...

I know,,I have been ostracized,,misunderstood,,scrutinized,,and pretty much dispised for some concerns that i've expressed ...Many were expressed a a grieving widower seeking some friendly compassionate responses...Many saw this as an opportunity to attack..

I'm leaving CM,,but please consider peace and warmth and compassion....Being a Teddy Bear is more loving..............If you disagree,,,take it as a teaching opportunity,,all parties...

thank you
Aug 11th 2013 new
(quote) Kenny-949632 said:

Why are there so many arguements on this,,a Catholic site..? Even prayer on this simple thread is growing into a negative context by some....
..Can't people express opinions without fear of negative reprisal....If we feel someone is wrong,,,why not educate in a warm, caring, kind manner..??

Often what is perceived by some to be negative criticism is met in return with negative criticism and it escalates and escalates...

Negativity and assumed harsh criticism breeds itself..If we disagree,,let's do it in a manner that perhaps a loving, merciful Jesus would do it...

I know,,I have been ostracized,,misunderstood,,scrutinized,,and pretty much dispised for some concerns that i've expressed ...Many were expressed a a grieving widower seeking some friendly compassionate responses...Many saw this as an opportunity to attack..

I'm leaving CM,,but please consider peace and warmth and compassion....Being a Teddy Bear is more loving..............If you disagree,,,take it as a teaching opportunity,,all parties...

thank you
> Why are there so many arguements on this,,a Catholic site..?

A good question. You will find a significant part of the answer if you can figure out why people come to a Catholic web site and obstinately argue positions contrary to the Catholic faith.

> Can't people express opinions without fear of negative reprisal....If we feel someone is wrong,,,why not educate in a warm, caring, kind manner..??

What do you consider a "negative reprisal"? Pointing out errors in statements that are contrary to the faith of the same Catholic Church whose faithful members this site is dedicated to serve? How is this a "reprisal" vs.a debate or discussion?

Expressing an opinion is different than making declarative statements that are contrary to our faith. Apparently you missed the numerous attempts to gently correct these errors before a secular humanist web site was cited as a source of supporting evidence in a debate concerning the Catholic faith. It is not kind, compassionate, or caring to let such errors stand uncorrected. Warm and fuzzy? Perhaps. For now. But will those who were left in error feel that way when they are called to account when it is too late to correct it? And what of those led astray by their errors (remember, what is posted in forums such as this is not a private, verbal conversation. The words persist for several years and will be read by many, many people over time. We, as faithful Catholics, owe it to each and every one of them to ensure that significant errors of the faith are promptly corrected.

> I know,,I have been ostracized,,misunderstood,,scrutinized,,and pretty much dispised for some concerns that i've expressed ...Many were expressed a a grieving widower seeking some friendly compassionate responses...Many saw this as an opportunity to attack..

Most of what you have labeled as attacks against you in various topics were people expressing opinions that were contrary to yours or who pointed out errors in statements you posted. Neither of these are attacks.



Aug 11th 2013 new
This is just.. sad.
Posts 51 - 60 of 77