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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: A couple of years ago my diocesan Marriage and Family Life minister told me that 85% of couples in Pre-Cana classes are having sex . He said it very matter of factly, like it should be of no surprise. He also said that of the 85%, over half of them were living together. Again, he said it should be of no surprise, since our culture is a culture of "immediate gratification in everything".
I have had a couple of years to come to grips with this information and to do my own "research" and have found that CM is a very good data sampling that supports these statistics, especially from the numbers of members that answer "no" under premarital sex (way more men than women check "no" in this category).
Now, I know where I stand in this category (check my profile if you are interested) and I know where my exhusband stands (he is currently unmarried, living with his "sex slave"), but I am concerned where this leaves my four twenty-something year old children.
What is the Catholic church doing to reduce the percentages? Well, the marriage and family life minister said he is setting up households for the couples to live, seperately, so that they are no longer living together. Not a bad idea, but I think that is just treating the symptoms and not getting to the root of the problem.
I would like to hear suggestions from CM members, whether you checked yes or no for the premarital sex question or not, as to whether or not the Church should "do" anything in regards to the high percentages of members engaging in sex before marriage. AND if the church should "do" something, what should it be? Keep in mind that statistics show couples who cohabitate/engage in premarital sex have a higher divorce rate than couples that don't.
First, I've only checked out a few responses, so this is pretty much coming from my gut and trying to answer Joan's questions.

I feel like the Church should do something, but whether it'll stem the tide is up in the air. It's a societal thing and hard to break. I think most Catholics that live together are probably not regular Sunday attending Catholics. It's just my feeling, no hard facts to back that up.

What should the Church do? I think it starts with education. That the Church needs to make a better effort at educating teens about purity and chastity and talking about why living together is wrong. So many see their siblings and/or family doing it, that they figure it's no big deal and so they will as well. We need to keep pounding home the message that living together and being sexually active before marriage is not a good thing. I've found the time dedicated to it at my home parish was one class session on marriage and one on chastity and purity. Keep in mind one class session is one hour and fifteen minutes. So that's a grand sum of two and a half hours on the topic. Trust me, all the important points can't be covered in that time period and the kids will walk out of that class ignorant to the Church's teaching. The other thing would be the priests taking a stand and telling couples that the parish will not be having their wedding if they keep living together. A priest who went on to be a bishop said that to my cousin and his then fiancee and they didn't live together even though they'd picked out an apartment. The priest talked them through it and my cousin said he made utter and complete sense and really appreciated the talk. So, better education and more priests taking a stand is what I believe should happen in order to reduce the rate of couples living together and thus reducing the rate of divorce.
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
Just the other day a man tried to justify sex outside marriage to me, saying it isn't pre-marital sex because he and his partner were already married....not to each other, and they each are now divorced, but they are convinced that their relationship is fine because it is 'not pre-marital sex' because of their past marriages!
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Just the other day a man tried to justify sex outside marriage to me, saying it isn't pre-marital sex because he and his partner were already married....not to each other, and they each are now divorced, but they are convinced that their relationship is fine because it is 'not pre-marital sex' because of their past marriages!
And there-in lies the problem with the term "pre-marital sex". It may help to point out that the Commandment forbids sex outside of marriage, not just before marriage (by his reasoning, adultery during a marriage is not a sin).

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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Just the other day a man tried to justify sex outside marriage to me, saying it isn't pre-marital sex because he and his partner were already married....not to each other, and they each are now divorced, but they are convinced that their relationship is fine because it is 'not pre-marital sex' because of their past marriages!
that is definitely the most bizarre thing I've read so far today
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Rachel-731570 said: Just the other day a man tried to justify sex outside marriage to me, saying it isn't pre-marital sex because he and his partner were already married....not to each other, and they each are now divorced, but they are convinced that their relationship is fine because it is 'not pre-marital sex' because of their past marriages!
Ugh, sounds familiar (same thing my former spouse said). As far as the comment that "most of these people living together are not attending mass", I don't necessarily agree. My former husband attends mass every Sunday with his live in girlfriend and they both receive communion. I met a woman whose former husband was living with his "fiance" and distributing communion as an EME at mass. When she tried to inform the parish priest he told her to "mind her own business".
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Dan-656122 said: First, I've only checked out a few responses, so this is pretty much coming from my gut and trying to answer Joan's questions.

I feel like the Church should do something, but whether it'll stem the tide is up in the air. It's a societal thing and hard to break. I think most Catholics that live together are probably not regular Sunday attending Catholics. It's just my feeling, no hard facts to back that up.

What should the Church do? I think it starts with education. That the Church needs to make a better effort at educating teens about purity and chastity and talking about why living together is wrong. So many see their siblings and/or family doing it, that they figure it's no big deal and so they will as well. We need to keep pounding home the message that living together and being sexually active before marriage is not a good thing. I've found the time dedicated to it at my home parish was one class session on marriage and one on chastity and purity. Keep in mind one class session is one hour and fifteen minutes. So that's a grand sum of two and a half hours on the topic. Trust me, all the important points can't be covered in that time period and the kids will walk out of that class ignorant to the Church's teaching. The other thing would be the priests taking a stand and telling couples that the parish will not be having their wedding if they keep living together. A priest who went on to be a bishop said that to my cousin and his then fiancee and they didn't live together even though they'd picked out an apartment. The priest talked them through it and my cousin said he made utter and complete sense and really appreciated the talk. So, better education and more priests taking a stand is what I believe should happen in order to reduce the rate of couples living together and thus reducing the rate of divorce.
I agree, education is important. I especially love the story of the priest that refused to marry the couple in his church if they lived together!
One point that you touched on, but I don't feel was emphasized enough, was that PARENTS of these young people are living with their "boyfriends/girlfriends", with no intention of ever marrying (this is the case with my former spouse). What kind of example does this leave my kids (all in their 20's)? Young people today have it VERY difficult in this area and the only way out is through intense faith in God's love for His faithful people.
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Sep 22nd 2013 new
theheart theheart theheart theheart Hi everyone,
I wonder if it were Our Lord teaching these pre-Cana classes what he would say if couples told Him they were having sex and living together. I don't think Jesus would have a problem clarifying Himself and the Gospel. So why do are priests??????
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Sep 23rd 2013 new
(quote) Elizabeth-726465 said: Hi everyone,
I wonder if it were Our Lord teaching these pre-Cana classes what he would say if couples told Him they were having sex and living together. I don't think Jesus would have a problem clarifying Himself and the Gospel. So why do are priests??????
Good point Elizabeth scratchchin
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Sep 24th 2013 new
John, I don't really think it is any of the church's business whether they are living together or not. This new pope is going to bring the church up to date on things like this. You wonder if this is wrong why does a woman after child bearing age continue to have sex?" The answer is that her husband would not be around if there wasn't sex involved in the marriage at the older age. If there isn't a chance for pregnancy why doesn't the church say that people shouldn't participate.




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Nov 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: A couple of years ago my diocesan Marriage and Family Life minister told me that 85% of couples in Pre-Cana classes are having sex . He said it very matter of factly, like it should be of no surprise. He also said that of the 85%, over half of them were living together. Again, he said it should be of no surprise, since our culture is a culture of "immediate gratification in everything".
I have had a couple of years to come to grips with this information and to do my own "research" and have found that CM is a very good data sampling that supports these statistics, especially from the numbers of members that answer "no" under premarital sex (way more men than women check "no" in this category).
Now, I know where I stand in this category (check my profile if you are interested) and I know where my exhusband stands (he is currently unmarried, living with his "sex slave"), but I am concerned where this leaves my four twenty-something year old children.
What is the Catholic church doing to reduce the percentages? Well, the marriage and family life minister said he is setting up households for the couples to live, seperately, so that they are no longer living together. Not a bad idea, but I think that is just treating the symptoms and not getting to the root of the problem.
I would like to hear suggestions from CM members, whether you checked yes or no for the premarital sex question or not, as to whether or not the Church should "do" anything in regards to the high percentages of members engaging in sex before marriage. AND if the church should "do" something, what should it be? Keep in mind that statistics show couples who cohabitate/engage in premarital sex have a higher divorce rate than couples that don't.
This issue is complex and difficult. For many, the problem is a lack of Faith and/ or cafeteria style Catholicism. Like one poster, people don't care...don't fear God and have stopped believing...naturally then premarital sex will occur and/ or living together. This is he problem by in large....people need to be reevangelived and start really living their Catholic Faith.

know for people that truly do believe and fear God, chastity can be extremely hard if you are in lev and plan to be married. Additionally, if the couple is unevenly yoked there are many problems. My fiance and I ( which he's on here too again) struggled with chastity. We were so in love once, so it flowed from that...not using each other. We believed in Church teaching on premarital sex...that wasn't the problem...the problem was an uneven distribution of Grace, unevenly yoked....and many complex psychology issues in the relationship. Our situation is unique there. I guess I am just saying some people just don't care to practice their faith, others struggle with fallen nature.....my fiance turned to prayer, Mass etc yo help us be chaste.....personally, it was my deep love of God, my deep belief in God being real, and my gratitude for the blessings in my life that helped me fight the most. This coupled with the true love I had for my fiance, our children and the relationship....pre marital sex can really ruin an engagement. Furthermore, if the engagement falls apart, then one or both can be left with deep deep,wounds, that are excruciating through loss of spirituality and loss of Chasity. Pre marital sex is so wrong, damaging, and disfiguring....not yo mention how it wounds Christ.

bottom line, I'm not sure.....people need to find their faith first.....if they believe and know their Faith....then chasity is looked at as a virtue and something to practice and they believe it can be done...it will be something they strive towards even if they have moments of failure ( harder I think for divorced & widowed) ....bottom line Evangelize first, love, and then correct, preach! ....and pray....


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