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Jun 18th 2013 new
(quote) Bob-945720 said: Priests tell me that we are in the age of the laity. That doesn't mean that we need the laity more involved in the liturgy, but that the battle for souls needs to be fought by the laity. In this case, the answer to the question "What should the Church do?" might be the answer to the question, "What should I do?" If we see Catholics or even Protestants living together among our circle of friends we should challenge them. Part of the problem stems from the continuance of the mentality that allows contraception in marriage. If contraception in marriage (which forces God out of the marital act) is allowable, then the marital act is not sacred. Since the purpose of sex is "just pleasure" there is little reason to treat it with respect. I think we need to find ways to communicate with other Catholics on this subject. Forum topics like this one are a good idea.
BRAVO, BOB!! I was wondering when someone was going to point out that the churches teaching on contraception is directly related to the "85% of couples living together"!! And it took a convert to make that connection. If the church spent more time teaching the value of human life, including contraception in marriage, it would not have to worry so much about premarital sex!! Sorry if the pews look empty Sunday after Sunday of preaching the value of human life, but eventually those pews with fill with strong Catholic Christians who are ready to spread the Gospel of Christ.
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Jun 18th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: BRAVO, BOB!! I was wondering when someone was going to point out that the churches teaching on contraception is directly related to the "85% of couples living together"!! And it took a convert to make that connection. If the church spent more time teaching the value of human life, including contraception in marriage, it would not have to worry so much about premarital sex!! Sorry if the pews look empty Sunday after Sunday of preaching the value of human life, but eventually those pews with fill with strong Catholic Christians who are ready to spread the Gospel of Christ.
Correction: "the harm of contraception in marriage"
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Jun 18th 2013 new
I agree with Marge that the issue needs to be addressed from the pulpit.
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Jun 18th 2013 new
The percentage seems right on according to the reports I have recently heard from three engaged couples that I have regular contact with (in late twenties/early thirties). All three couples are Catholic, two of the young women have deacon dads & very active parish moms. The third couple both have BA/MA in Theology. One couple is living together, they met on here, report chastity- I'm not sure how that plays out...but ALL of their friends lived together before getting married. I have serious concerns which have been voiced - even with tears in my eyes--I have to hope and pray that only God knows...not for me to speculate etc. I let them know I am here for them and the truth.

My point: All three couples reported that all of the other couples seated at the table during pre-cana (all live in diff. states) reported living together. The couple that is living together reported that they were surprised to be the most conservative and informed out west. I have concerns for this couple, which I have lovingly & frankly/ directly addressed to no avail. The two couples that are chaste and living apart, were very disappointed with the content of Pre Cana and the fact that all the other couples seated with them were living together. They did say that they learned something from discussing the questions that they did separately on line and deepened their relationship.

One couple reported that NFP was never mentioned or explained when another very young lady raised her hand and mentioned that she did not want to have more children and used contraception- would she still be a good Catholic? The leader answered in passive, dismissive tone in order to be PC with the overall effect of "do as you see fit!" When fiance' raised hand to address girls concern and ask Pre Cana leader to talk about NFP in response...you could hear the sound of crickets!

Its disheartening to hear this from very blessed and formed Catholic engaged couples. I am honored to be walking through some of the prep with them as they draw closer to the big day...One in July, Aug & Sept respectfully! Praying

More REAL marriage prep would = less divorce & annulments....Theology of the Body should be explored with NFP
and the dangers of living together for the future marriage should without a doubt be exposed- and explained in honest terms- perhaps with a little TOB thrown in for good measure...

Make me a Higher Love www.youtube.com
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Jun 18th 2013 new
(quote) Lisa-933589 said: The percentage seems right on according to the reports I have recently heard from three engaged couples that I have regular contact with (in late twenties/early thirties). All three couples are Catholic, two of the young women have deacon dads & very active parish moms. The third couple both have BA/MA in Theology. One couple is living together, they met on here, report chastity- I'm not sure how that plays out...but ALL of their friends lived together before getting married. I have serious concerns which have been voiced - even with tears in my eyes--I have to hope and pray that only God knows...not for me to speculate etc. I let them know I am here for them and the truth.

My point: All three couples reported that all of the other couples seated at the table during pre-cana (all live in diff. states) reported living together. The couple that is living together reported that they were surprised to be the most conservative and informed out west. I have concerns for this couple, which I have lovingly & frankly/ directly addressed to no avail. The two couples that are chaste and living apart, were very disappointed with the content of Pre Cana and the fact that all the other couples seated with them were living together. They did say that they learned something from discussing the questions that they did separately on line and deepened their relationship.

One couple reported that NFP was never mentioned or explained when another very young lady raised her hand and mentioned that she did not want to have more children and used contraception- would she still be a good Catholic? The leader answered in passive, dismissive tone in order to be PC with the overall effect of "do as you see fit!" When fiance' raised hand to address girls concern and ask Pre Cana leader to talk about NFP in response...you could hear the sound of crickets!

Its disheartening to hear this from very blessed and formed Catholic engaged couples. I am honored to be walking through some of the prep with them as they draw closer to the big day...One in July, Aug & Sept respectfully! Praying

More REAL marriage prep would = less divorce & annulments....Theology of the Body should be explored with NFP
and the dangers of living together for the future marriage should without a doubt be exposed- and explained in honest terms- perhaps with a little TOB thrown in for good measure...

Make me a Higher Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwuHtbcvTh8
Lisa,
When I wrote the initial post I had forgotten about a family I have known since before the parents married. The father is a university professor (and a deacon in the Catholic Church) and the mother is in charge of the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd (Atrium) program at my parish. They have 4 young adult daughters. The oldest daughter received her undergraduate degree at an Ivy league school in Pennsylvania, is now married and attending Catholic University, hoping to obtain her law degree. She is "contracepting" as she does not desire to have children while attending school.
The second daughter has a degree in Marriage and Family Life therapy and is currently living with her boyfriend. The third daughter moved to NYC to pursue a career in theatre/fashion, however returned to complete her education at the university her father is employed with. She lives with her boyfriend who has a 4 year old son by his first wife, (who I hope he is divorced from). The fourth daughter just graduated from the University of Notre Dame and works for Ave Maria Press. She is engaged to be married next year and I HOPE she is not living with the boyfriend, but I am afraid to ask.
If this is the family of a deacon and his wife; what can we expect from a family in which the parents are not involved in parish ministry? I remember telling my friend that I was intrigued by her family but definitely not impressed. I went on to explain that I was intrigued by how she relates to these children, all of whom are not hiding the fact that they are living in sin. Two of the daughters even asked their parents if their boyfriends could spend the night in the parents house in the same room as the boyfriend!! She laughed and said, "well at least they still come home". I love my friend and her husband; they are such dear friends from many years ago but ...........
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Jun 18th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: to these children, all of whom are not hiding the fact that they are living in sin
Don't far too many people think there is no such thing as sin?

Then if the marriage/ cohabitation ends, how many jump into another "no-sinful" relationship ... then another, then another ... Any questions why these relationships don't last?
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Jun 18th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: Lisa,
When I wrote the initial post I had forgotten about a family I have known since before the parents married. The father is a university professor (and a deacon in the Catholic Church) and the mother is in charge of the Catechesis of the Good Shepherd (Atrium) program at my parish. They have 4 young adult daughters. The oldest daughter received her undergraduate degree at an Ivy league school in Pennsylvania, is now married and attending Catholic University, hoping to obtain her law degree. She is "contracepting" as she does not desire to have children while attending school.
The second daughter has a degree in Marriage and Family Life therapy and is currently living with her boyfriend. The third daughter moved to NYC to pursue a career in theatre/fashion, however returned to complete her education at the university her father is employed with. She lives with her boyfriend who has a 4 year old son by his first wife, (who I hope he is divorced from). The fourth daughter just graduated from the University of Notre Dame and works for Ave Maria Press. She is engaged to be married next year and I HOPE she is not living with the boyfriend, but I am afraid to ask.
If this is the family of a deacon and his wife; what can we expect from a family in which the parents are not involved in parish ministry? I remember telling my friend that I was intrigued by her family but definitely not impressed. I went on to explain that I was intrigued by how she relates to these children, all of whom are not hiding the fact that they are living in sin. Two of the daughters even asked their parents if their boyfriends could spend the night in the parents house in the same room as the boyfriend!! She laughed and said, "well at least they still come home". I love my friend and her husband; they are such dear friends from many years ago but ...........
Wow, that is a scary and disappointing situation. I recently heard a sad story about a CCD teacher who does not attend Mass regularly. Hopefully some of the ideas discussed in this topic can reverse these trends. I went to a conservative Catholic high school and learned both at home and at school that premarital sex is wrong. Unfortunately, many Catholics seem to be getting a different message now.
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Jun 19th 2013 new
(quote) Lisa-933589 said: More REAL marriage prep would = less divorce & annulments....Theology of the Body should be explored with NFP
and the dangers of living together for the future marriage should without a doubt be exposed- and explained in honest terms- perhaps with a little TOB thrown in for good measure...

Make me a Higher Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwuHtbcvTh8
I completely agree that more marriage prep is needed. The information or teaching after a divorce or annulment, at least my tribunal, is disappointing to say the least. In essence they reply with the assumption that you are already in a relationship and ready to get married. A flyer with the Pre-Cana classes for those that have already been married was included with my Final Decree. It made me sad, angry, frustrated and very disappointed. The initial contact from the Tribunal is an excellent opportunity to remind the parties involved of the teachings of the Church, not give approval for going against them.
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Jun 19th 2013 new
First of all, I also agree that it would be helpful to receive more guidance and direction in the sermons at mass. It is a wonderful opportunity for priests to instruct and educate the congregation on important matters if they are passionate about saving souls.

Secondly, I think it would also help to have confession more readily available. I read once that in New York, I believe, there was at least one church or cathedral that had a priest in the confessional 24/7. If confession and spiritual direction were more readily available, then maybe people would better heed the warning to "Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour."

Thirdly, I think modesty is important in this. If modesty were ingrained at a young age, I believe it could make a difference. For example, IMO the Catholic schools' uniform skirts have become too short. If the skirt does not cover the knees when the girl sits down, it is too short. If young women learned modesty, then I think they might be too ashamed or embarrassed to be unchaste before marriage. And that would solve half the problem.


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Jun 19th 2013 new
(quote) Dana-782979 said: I completely agree that more marriage prep is needed. The information or teaching after a divorce or annulment, at least my tribunal, is disappointing to say the least. In essence they reply with the assumption that you are already in a relationship and ready to get married. A flyer with the Pre-Cana classes for those that have already been married was included with my Final Decree. It made me sad, angry, frustrated and very disappointed. The initial contact from the Tribunal is an excellent opportunity to remind the parties involved of the teachings of the Church, not give approval for going against them.
Dana, this was EXACTLY my experience when I attended the not well advertised, held once every couple of years, two hour class about divorce/annulment!! I and a gentlemen were the ONLY ones in attendance that were not engaged!! I AM sad, angry, frustrated and very disappointed.
In regards to providing "more instruction in regards to church teaching on premarital sex" during pre-cana classes, I DO believe it is needed. HOWEVER, these individuals are fornicating for YEARS before they ever make it to pre-cana classes so instruction needs to come long before pre-cana classes.
EVERY Christian religion teaches that fornication is a "sin"; it is in scripture. EVERY Christian religion teaches respect for human life. There is absolutely NO WAY around it. The sinfulness of fornication and contraception should be "taught" from the pulpit of every Christian church; unfortunately church attendance has plummeted to all time lows.
I have to go back to what Bob said earlier, about the lack of respect for "human life". I believe if the teaching from the pulpit focused more on the respect for human life, the numbers of people fornicating would decrease significantly.




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