Faith Focused Dating. Create your Free Profile and meet your Match! Sign Up for Free

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

info: Please Sign Up or Sign In to continue.

A place to learn, mingle, and share

Singles discussion related to wedding planning, engagement, and married life should be posted in this room.

Saint Valentine is patron saint of love, young people, and happy marriages.
Learn More: Saint Valentine

Jun 19th 2013 new
To address the issue on the high percentage of couples engaging in Pre-marital Sex or living together before marriage amongst Catholics (and Christians alike) is like addressing poverty and prostitution. It's a huge task and it canmot be done overnight. In developing countries, where lack of education and access to churches (I came from a town in the Philippines where regular mass schedule is monthly) are a huge problem, it is difficult to address this issue immediately. Poverty can also play a huge role. In my country, most Catholic couples would choose to marry in civil rites because they couldn't afford a Catholic wedding, where it is expected to buy a wedding dress, a ring, church fees, Pre-Wedding seminar, food, gifts, etc... In developed or progressive countries, who are more focused on "instant gratification" (I agree with the priest), imposing strict rules would mean empty parishes. Culture and the environment also plays an important role. If everyone does it, it must be right. Right? We know it's not. But there are things that the Church can do. One thing I particularly like that the parishes in my country do (and they extend this practice to any country where there is a huge Filipino community) is the Mass Wedding, usually offered in February on Valentine's Day or in June, the Wedding month. Any couples, living together or not, are encouraged to sign-up and get married, for free. Months prior, the parish/es announce the occasion after every mass, and sometimes a second collection is done to cover the expenses - food, flowers, decorations, etc. This Mass Wedding is free for the couples. They just need to sign-up and show up in a white wedding dress on that day. The good thing with this is the priest in mass celebrations prior, would encourage couples, especially those living together already, to sanctify their union and have God's blessings. To me, this is a perfect example of the church asking people to return to God. They do know it's wrong, but they don't focus on the wrong, but rather show compassion and offers their hand to help the poor couples who could not afford a wedding, to have one. I have attended one in my village, and believe me, some couples who already had children, cried after the wedding. They were just so happy that finally they are married in church. To them it was an impossible dream, but was made possible because of the church. To these couples, howcould we judge them as "sinners."? So I hope some of us here would be compassionate enough to see that not all couples living together prior to marriage are against church marriage or that they are intentionally going against the church teachings. What we can do is to pray for their enlightenment and blessings (to afford a wedding). Also, oftentimes, always reminding them of the wrong keeps them away from God, because they felt pressured, or they feel that when they do wrong, God will not love them back. Because that is how God's people made them feel. Won't it be sad that by trying to lead them back to God, your actions made them turn away from God? That would be tragic. I am sure we do not want that. So why don't we try to live more with compassion and in love?
LOCKED
Jun 19th 2013 new
(quote) Joan-529855 said: A couple of years ago my diocesan Marriage and Family Life minister told me that 85% of couples in Pre-Cana classes are having sex . He said it very matter of factly, like it should be of no surprise. He also said that of the 85%, over half of them were living together. Again, he said it should be of no surprise, since our culture is a culture of "immediate gratification in everything".
I have had a couple of years to come to grips with this information and to do my own "research" and have found that CM is a very good data sampling that supports these statistics, especially from the numbers of members that answer "no" under premarital sex (way more men than women check "no" in this category).
Now, I know where I stand in this category (check my profile if you are interested) and I know where my exhusband stands (he is currently unmarried, living with his "sex slave"), but I am concerned where this leaves my four twenty-something year old children.
What is the Catholic church doing to reduce the percentages? Well, the marriage and family life minister said he is setting up households for the couples to live, seperately, so that they are no longer living together. Not a bad idea, but I think that is just treating the symptoms and not getting to the root of the problem.
I would like to hear suggestions from CM members, whether you checked yes or no for the premarital sex question or not, as to whether or not the Church should "do" anything in regards to the high percentages of members engaging in sex before marriage. AND if the church should "do" something, what should it be? Keep in mind that statistics show couples who cohabitate/engage in premarital sex have a higher divorce rate than couples that don't.


I'm actually surprised because I thought the percentage would be higher.

I'm sure the church is doing the best they can. What can they really do to lower the percentage? I don't think much.


LOCKED
Jun 19th 2013 new
(quote) Dave-915458 said: Joan, I will be glad to explain. Could you please let me know what you did not understand?
There are two aspects here: Economic and Political, but these are related. To many "conservatives" today, these aspects have no significant effect to our social and moral lives. I disagree, and I understand a few people like Chesterton and Belloc, who lived towards the beginning of last century also disagree.
America was founded not just to free man from the Crown, but also to free him from him the Church. It is the worlds first truly secular state. (The founders did say a few prayers, but if you look at their lives, most of them had no faith. They would have been atheist, had it not been too unpopular at their time.) In the founders credit however, they recognized that without a notion of right and wrong, the state would disintegrate. Being secular, they did not have recourse to religion. Hence, they settled on a system of what I term as "mechanized morality" encoded in the legal framework.
This does affect social life. You will hence find people talking about a certain action being "legal" or not, instead of "moral". Morality loses its meaning in the minds of people, because nothing in the real world is based on it. The Church may make various attempts at remedying this problem of promiscuity among our unmarried laity, but until morals play some role in regular life, I think it would be a failure.
In this regard I like the Muslim world. Despite all the criticism of the barbarity of Sharia Law, it is more natural to man than the secular state that we have today. At the minimum they have the ability to prohibit problems like Gay Marriage, something that a secular state is powerless to prohibit.
Capitalism does have its own problems that affect this social question, but from your post, I assumed that you had problems with only the political part.


I live across the street from a Mosque and also know lots of Muslims. I am sorry to say that I firmly believe a much greater percentage of Muslims live their faith, especailly with regards to sexual morality, than Christians/Catholics. Most Catholics I know are Catholics in name only, using the church when they need to receive their sacraments or they're in crisis and want to pray for help. When things are good in their lives, they have no use for the church. Just my observations. I don't know whether I am right or wong.


LOCKED
Jun 19th 2013 new
I think it is a question of differentiating right from wrong. It gives the impression that some adults are ignorant of some of the Ten Commandments which are the guide of the Catholic faith. True Catholics have inner conviction, they respect themselves, and exhibit high morals and values at all times in all human dealings, and they do not need the "preaching from the pulpit" to remind them of their personal obligations. On the contrary, true Catholics are an example to the rest of the world. Their inner conviction is very strong!
LOCKED
Jun 19th 2013 new
(quote) Mary-981059 said: I think it is a question of differentiating right from wrong. It gives the impression that some adults are ignorant of some of the Ten Commandments which are the guide of the Catholic faith. True Catholics have inner conviction, they respect themselves, and exhibit high morals and values at all times in all human dealings, and they do not need the "preaching from the pulpit" to remind them of their personal obligations. On the contrary, true Catholics are an example to the rest of the world. Their inner conviction is very strong!
Welcome to the forums Mary!!!
LOCKED
Aug 21st 2013 new
A good way to alienate young people from the Church who are living in sin, committed to each other and ready to be ceremoniously married and wishing the blessing of the Church, is to refuse to marry them for living in sin.

The Church's teaching on ethics and morality do serve a purpose, but oftentimes members of the Church are too quick to judge and may in fact help push people away who are reaching out to the Church.

These are crazy times that we are living in for sure, and have been made even more crazy by the fact we live in a time where the secular world has an "anything goes" mentality especially when it comes to "sexuality." Far too many folks have been contaminated by cultural influence and the Church is virtually powerless to counteract, especially when further alienating people from the Catholic Church who are reaching out and want to deepen their faith within the Catholic Church. Those couples who are seeking and turned away might even find comfort in other Christian sects that are less quick to condemn.

Culture has been weaponized. Dysfunction was the goal and it has been achieved.
LOCKED
Aug 21st 2013 new
(quote) Zachary-948066 said: A good way to alienate young people from the Church who are living in sin, committed to each other and ready to be ceremoniously married and wishing the blessing of the Church, is to refuse to marry them for living in sin.

The Church's teaching on ethics and morality do serve a purpose, but oftentimes members of the Church are too quick to judge and may in fact help push people away who are reaching out to the Church.

These are crazy times that we are living in for sure, and have been made even more crazy by the fact we live in a time where the secular world has an "anything goes" mentality especially when it comes to "sexuality." Far too many folks have been contaminated by cultural influence and the Church is virtually powerless to counteract, especially when further alienating people from the Catholic Church who are reaching out and want to deepen their faith within the Catholic Church. Those couples who are seeking and turned away might even find comfort in other Christian sects that are less quick to condemn.

Culture has been weaponized. Dysfunction was the goal and it has been achieved.
Zachary, I understand what you are saying. I have four kids 22 to 28 years old. They have lived this "anything goes" sexual mentality though they have remained chaste. I think the most unfortunate aspect for young people today is that their parents generation has not provided their children with role models. I know I admired my parents for their efforts to remain pure and faithful to their spouse, however that is not the case of many of today's parents. The PARENTS have an "anything goes" mentality that they have passed down to their kids...very sad.
LOCKED
Aug 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Zachary-948066 said: A good way to alienate young people from the Church who are living in sin, committed to each other and ready to be ceremoniously married and wishing the blessing of the Church, is to refuse to marry them for living in sin.

The Church's teaching on ethics and morality do serve a purpose, but oftentimes members of the Church are too quick to judge and may in fact help push people away who are reaching out to the Church.

These are crazy times that we are living in for sure, and have been made even more crazy by the fact we live in a time where the secular world has an "anything goes" mentality especially when it comes to "sexuality." Far too many folks have been contaminated by cultural influence and the Church is virtually powerless to counteract, especially when further alienating people from the Catholic Church who are reaching out and want to deepen their faith within the Catholic Church. Those couples who are seeking and turned away might even find comfort in other Christian sects that are less quick to condemn.

Culture has been weaponized. Dysfunction was the goal and it has been achieved.
Well stated Zachary. At this point in time we need to consider it a great blessing that young people desire to be married in the church. We can alienate people from the church by being judgmental(in the negative sense).We sinners need to welcome other sinners into the church and do the best we can to set good examples in a humble,non-superior way.
LOCKED
Aug 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Tom-112790 said: Well stated Zachary. At this point in time we need to consider it a great blessing that young people desire to be married in the church. We can alienate people from the church by being judgmental(in the negative sense).We sinners need to welcome other sinners into the church and do the best we can to set good examples in a humble,non-superior way.
Tom, can you show me one example in Scripture where Christ welcomed those who obstinately persisted in sin, as is those who continue living together outside marriage? Did He not admonish the sinners He healed to "Go and sin no more"?

The sinners Christ welcomed were those who repented for their sins and asked for forgiveness.

LOCKED
Aug 22nd 2013 new
(quote) Zachary-948066 said: A good way to alienate young people from the Church who are living in sin, committed to each other and ready to be ceremoniously married and wishing the blessing of the Church, is to refuse to marry them for living in sin.

The Church's teaching on ethics and morality do serve a purpose, but oftentimes members of the Church are too quick to judge and may in fact help push people away who are reaching out to the Church.

These are crazy times that we are living in for sure, and have been made even more crazy by the fact we live in a time where the secular world has an "anything goes" mentality especially when it comes to "sexuality." Far too many folks have been contaminated by cultural influence and the Church is virtually powerless to counteract, especially when further alienating people from the Catholic Church who are reaching out and want to deepen their faith within the Catholic Church. Those couples who are seeking and turned away might even find comfort in other Christian sects that are less quick to condemn.

Culture has been weaponized. Dysfunction was the goal and it has been achieved.
> A good way to alienate young people from the Church who are living in sin

They have already alienated themselves from the Church by their obstinate persistence in mortal sin.

> committed to each other

No, they are committed to their own pleasure, perhaps even to the pleasure of the other. To be committed to the other person means to be committed to their well-being, both temporally and spiritually -- which means they would cease living in sin immediately.

> ready to be ceremoniously married and wishing the blessing of the Church

What they wish is for the Church to let them do what they want on their own terms. If they want the blessing of the Church they would be willing to follow the Church's rules -- Christ's rules -- and stop living in sin until they are married.

> The Church's teaching on ethics and morality do serve a purpose, but oftentimes members of the Church are too quick to judge and may in fact help push people away who are reaching out to the Church.

"members of the Church" aren't refusing to marry a couple living in sin: a priest is. Is it not his job to judge in situations like this? The priest judges each time a penitent requests absolution in confession; why should he not judge when they ask to marry?

> Far too many folks have been contaminated by cultural influence and the Church is virtually powerless to counteract, especially when further alienating people from the Catholic Church who are reaching out and want to deepen their faith within the Catholic Church.

Priests don't deny couples living in sin a marriage in the Church because they have been living in sin in the past; they are denied when they refuse to stop living in sin going forward until they are married. Such people are not seeking to deepen their faith; they are looking to have their cake and eat it, too.

> Culture has been weaponized. Dysfunction was the goal and it has been achieved.

This we agree on.

LOCKED
Posts 51 - 60 of 200