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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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How to deal with friend zoning

Jun 20th 2013 new
Ok, this is the LAST straw irked I have been friend-zoned every single time I try asking out a girl in addition to her entering religious discernment. I have never been on a single date in my entire life because of this. Is there anything I can do not to be friend-zoned? Why do all women only see me as a friend? What am I doing wrong?
Jun 20th 2013 new
Poor Andy, you seem like a sweet sort of guy. I hate to break this to you, but that's likely the "problem". Many women expect a man to be somewhat dashing and exuding confidence. One day, you'll meet a sweet girl who's scared of those kind of guys and just likes you. :) Maybe you ask out the wrong kind of girl..? Maybe leave it at friendship and see what happens..

From a woman's point of view, sometimes we don't understand why we 'friend-zone' this man and not this one either. It just depends on the types involved and each person's maturity perhaps.
Jun 20th 2013 new
I have had many similar experiences.

It seems to me that, in Catholic circles, the whole affair of dating carries a seriousness. We, as Catholics, understand just how high-stakes putting yourself "out there" emotionally is. The vulnerability that romance entails is not to be taken lightly.

That being said, it seem to me that women look to us men to "anesthetize" away the sting of this seriousness. One can ask out a woman in a manner which is lighthearted, joking, or possibly in a subtle, James-Bond-ninja-esque way. For instance, instead of furiously working up the courage to say "Would you like to go out with me for coffee?", which seems to get a woman's mind racing and, in turn, she defaults to refusal in response to this mind-racing-ness, you can instead say "We should go out and get coffee sometime--do you like the kind of coffee they have at <Joe's Coffee House>?" Note some things (1) you phrased the asking-out question in such a manner that you are "unselfishly" asking about a person's personal preference (e.g., instead of putting the focus on the decision as to whether you're going out with her, you're asking about some subjective prefernce of hers--perhaps not much unlike a nurse distracting you [characteristic of good bedside manner] if they need to administer a needle), (2) you are showing that you already have a plan (e.g., what about Joe's Coffee House, instead of entirely putting the ball in her court--which at first sounds like it is discourteous, but women seem to like it when men have a plan), (3) you appear confident because the "unspoken message" is "Of course you'll come on out with me, (3a) we're not serious (3b) we're going to have a good time--who can say "no" to a good time? (3c) you are sure of yourself, etc.

Hope this helps, sir.
Jun 20th 2013 new
P.S. Try not to think about this course of action as "the secret code you have to execute" in order to get her to say yes, but rather a scratch of the surface of the iceberg that is supposed to be your masculine sainthood. Men are called to be leaders, and are called to love unto death; these perceived frustrations between the sexes are supposed to nudge us towards our respective masculine and feminine manifestations of sainthood.
Jun 20th 2013 new
I hear you, brother.

The good news is that the friend zone effect becomes less likely to arise in its textbook form (ie you know a girl; you have/develop romantic interest in her; she wants to be just friends) after college. Unfortunately, that is in part because the rate at which you will meet young women will likely slow out there in the 'real world'; the good thing about that is that you can better concentrate on those you do meet to see if you might be interested in dating them. If you might have that interest, act on it, and without excessive delay. The inoculation against the friend zone is manning up, taking a risk, and asking girls out before they have a chance to get too buddy buddy with you. This is certainly no guarantee against rejection (but, with time, even that gets easier to take - all the more so when you didn't invest so much emotional energy in any specific young lady), but it will help prevent that particularly infuriating friend zone variety.

BTW, it bears mentioning that girls who legitimately 'friend zone' you do have one major thing going for them - they actually can be very good, lasting, loyal friends even after the failed attempt at 'relationship transition'. The value of such friendships will only become more and more apparent as time goes on.

TL;DR: ask 'em out quicker :)
Jun 20th 2013 new
Good advice, Bradley! Keep it casual!
Jun 20th 2013 new
Thank you all, these are some good suggestions. From what you all have said I think these have been my "wrong moves" so to speak:

1) Thinking that I have to know a girl as a friend for at least 6 months before asking her out as not be "too forward"
2) Asking out girls called to maybe called to religious life (reasoning: if she isn't pious enough, she is not attractive)
3 Investing a high level of emotional energy in a girl for a long period of time (try 5 years) before asking her out (result: devastating heartbreak due to friend-zoning)
4) Initially asking her out in a way that could be taken as "hey let's hang out" when I meant "hey let's go on a date"
Jun 20th 2013 new
(quote) Felicity-929402 said: Poor Andy, you seem like a sweet sort of guy. I hate to break this to you, but that's likely the "problem". Many women expect a man to be somewhat dashing and exuding confidence. One day, you'll meet a sweet girl who's scared of those kind of guys and just likes you. :) Maybe you ask out the wrong kind of girl..? Maybe leave it at friendship and see what happens..

From a woman's point of view, sometimes we don't understand why we 'friend-zone' this man and not this one either. It just depends on the types involved and each person's maturity perhaps.
Felicity, now I'm curious, what is your definition of a "sweet guy" vs. a "confident guy". How am I acting that makes me come across as "sweet" while other guys are "dashing and daring"?
Jun 20th 2013 new
If a girl just wants to be friends with you, respect that and consider it a good thing rather than a bad thing. Just turn your attention to someone else but don't wait and be friends first. There may be some examples of people who were friends first before dating, but I think that is exception rather than the rule. Once you are in the friends zone, it is very hard to get out it. So, if there is someone you like romantically, just go for it, all she can say is no. The nice thing about this site is you can ask out as many women as you like... one eventually has to say YES!!!!!
Jun 20th 2013 new
Well, one thing that I have a big problem with, Patrick, is that how can I like someone romantically without being friends first. I find I'm usually attracted to girls I know and am comfortable with. For me, friends are VERY attractive and I just can't see why being friends first is not normal. In fact, I can honestly say that I've been attracted to a good number of my female friends. I guess, when I was younger I dreamed about marrying a childhood sweetheart, though I never had one. So, I could ask out a random girl I don't know, but I probably will have a really hard time opening up and I probably will have to try to overlook the fact that I'm not sure if I'm interested in her. Now, Catholic Match makes it much easier to talk to girls I don't know right off the bat since I can read her profile and see if I'm interested. Unfortunately though, it's not always possible to ask out a girl on CM due to the distance factor. I've seen a few girls on here within driving distance but I'm not really interested in any of them- it's mainly been long-distance girls I've been interested in. On CM you can send messages back and forth and get to know one another but is it really dating? I mean when I think of real dating I think of that as actually meeting up and going out. Maybe I need a friend to set me up for a blind date or something.
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