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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
Learn More: Tobias & Sarah as led by Saint Raphael

Jun 20 new
(quote) Andy-896770 said: Well, one thing that I have a big problem with, Patrick, is that how can I like someone romantically without being friends first. I find I'm usually attracted to girls I know and am comfortable with. For me, friends are VERY attractive and I just can't see why being friends first is not normal. In fact, I can honestly say that I've been attracted to a good number of my female friends.
I was involved in a pretty in depth conversation on this topic. A brief summary of what we gradually ascertained is that for men, 'friendship attraction' and romantic attraction are, writ large, two sides of the same coin. For women, they are very, very different coins.

So yes, for a guy, it makes perfect sense that one gradually grows more romantically attracted to previously non-romantic friends. For girls, it just doesn't happen the same way (there are even some who will admit they see the logic in the male version, and maybe would prefer it if it were a matter of choice, but their nature is just not set up that way).

Concretely, then, what you gradually learn to do is get adept at spotting the characteristics in a young lady you've recently met that would make her seem like someone you'd particularly like to be around. When you've gotten to know her a little bit, then instead of 'buddying up' and winding up in the friend zone, ask her on a date. You'll get to know each other on more of a one on one basis than you would a friend (where it'd likely be more of a group), so that's something to get used to. However, you're used to getting on well with girls. That is transferable, and by slightly switching things up, you've dramatically reduced the friend zone dynamic. (now of course she might end up saying "let's just be friends" but that's a whole different kettle of fish, and you can consider actually being 'normal' friends at that point; sometimes people just don't match romantically - and you're much more likely to both realize it together if you've started out dating rather than as friends, which of course makes everything easier - but do work as friends).
Jun 20 new
GREAT suggestions!
Jun 20 new
I have to wonder...are you perhaps expressing interest in women who are all wrong for you?

Get a sheet of paper and list the girls who have done this. Make a table or matrix of their religion, upbringing, college major, profession/occupation, ethnicity, financial level, whatever you can think of. It may be that you are consistently picking girls from a group with which you have nothing in common.

I've seen this happen before. One fellow asked me why the CM girls didn't respond to him -- turned out they were all blondes with lots of mascara and none shared his interests or ambitions. He was choosing to contact them based solely on their looks. Another guy kept having disastrous relationships -- he consistently chose to date never-married women with two children by different fathers...a complicated situation that he really wasn't able to handle.

The common element in our failures sometimes is US -- BUT sometimes it's the things that attract us.
Jun 20 new
Blind dates can sometimes work out, Andy.
I think that when you & my beautiful Goddaughter cross paths, the magic will happen!
Jun 21 new
Well, Marge, I can tell you now that ALL of these girls met my standards for religion and politics (and believe me when I say my standards are SUPER high) but I can see that none of them had the same hobbies or anything like that. It seems difficult to find someone who shares my hobbies and simultaneously is holy. If I have to choose between common interests and same values I always choose same values because that is more important. I have also found that those who I'm attracted to don't find me attractive and those who DO find me attractive I don't find attractive. Mutuality is something rare if not non-existent to me at this point.
Jun 21 new
(quote) Andy-896770 said: .... those who DO find me attractive I don't find attractive.
So...stinkin'...what? mischievous

Attractiveness seems important to you now, since you are young and male. But keep using your brain instead of your emotions and someday you'll finding yourself thinking how odd that you never noticed how attractive that nice girl over there is.

"Beauty is as beauty does," grandma used to say. Translation: He/she who acts handsomely looks handsome. wink
Jun 21 new
Andy brother I feel ya 100% I'm just gonna put this out there but out of all the roughly 3.4 million women in the world there is only one for you. I know this is about getting out of the friends zone but remember it might also have a lot to do with timing.

I try not to let it get at me and when it starts to get annoying I workout and continue to stay laser like focused on my dreams.

Let it happen everything will work out when you least expect it and just be yourself. Your time will come, as will mine.

There is a reason you are friend zoned right now. Maybe, God isn't ready for you to meet that one special person just yet. I've had a lot of missed-targets but hey I'd rather crash and burn on those because it's one more day closer that I will be to the one for me. Stay strong brother, believe in yourself and don't forget to help at least a person a day.
Jun 22 new
Thanks, Kevin :) It's good to know I'm not alone.
Jun 22 new
Please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way, Andy, but perhaps the problem is that you are thinking in terms of "friendzoning". Put yourself in the place of the women you have pursued. Perhaps they were aware of your interest, but more than likely not. She has trusted you as she would trust a friend and placed confidences in your care, not thinking you were evaluating her as a potential partner.

If and when you meet someone who is interested in YOU, you don't have to be overly-forward but be honest in your actions and your intentions that you ARE interested "that way". That way it eases the pain of the asking and being rejected, because it will come out sooner what you are truly "after" (you won't find yourself in the 5-years-long-quasi-relationship situation) and the women you are interested in won't be as taken aback or feel as betrayed.

In the meantime, I would encourage you to enjoy the friendships with women God is blessing you with! How I appreciate the qualities of my male friends! Their strength has been a great comfort in times of distress, and I trust their opinion in who I am dating, sometimes more than my female friends, since they don't seem to be as caught up in the "romance" of a courtship. There are great things you can learn from your female friends to prepare you for the beautiful spouse God is simultaneously preparing for YOU as we speak!
Jun 22 new
(quote) Andy-896770 said: Well, Marge, I can tell you now that ALL of these girls met my standards for religion and politics (and believe me when I say my standards are SUPER high) but I can see that none of them had the same hobbies or anything like that. It seems difficult to find someone who shares my hobbies and simultaneously is holy. If I have to choose between common interests and same values I always choose same values because that is more important. I have also found that those who I'm attracted to don't find me attractive and those who DO find me attractive I don't find attractive. Mutuality is something rare if not non-existent to me at this point.
I am faced with the same problem right now, word for word as you describe it. I believe this problem is rampant amidst us analytical people (I am a theoretical physicist). I therefore am beginning to wonder if God is calling me to not see The Perfect Woman as the solution to some optimization problem I have in my head. There are millions of women out there. Let's be sensible--there really is no such thing as "the one". No, rather, you find someone and you commit yourself to them, period....for better or worse, for richer or poorer. I think I am going to bring to prayer "God, please let me not wait until I find the perfect woman, because she doesn't exist."

One, of course, doesn't just "date anyone," just for the sake of dating. But the opposite extreme--waiting for "the perfect One"--seems just as dangerous....
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