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Discussion related to living as a Catholic in the single state of life. As long as a topic is being discussed from the perspective of a single Catholic then it will be on-topic.

Tobias and Sarah's story is from the Book of Tobit, and his journey is guided by Saint Raphael.
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Jun 23rd 2013 new
Thank you, Suzanne. That was beautifully put.
Jun 23rd 2013 new
Thanks Katie.
Jun 23rd 2013 new
It is said that men know within 5 seconds of meeting a woman if he wants to marry her.
So on some level God lets you know right away. Then you spend six months doing the opposite. Basically deceiving her.

knowing that men usually decide so quickly. The question then was able to completely hide his feeling for quite sometime. Is he really honest? ...certainly not with me and maybe not even with himself?
Jun 23rd 2013 new
(quote) Suzanne-930338 said: Andy, You made a rude and low-blow about the "pinky room" and I must call you out on it.

First, there are no "old hags" in the pink room. I drop in there at least every other day. There are only LADIES that have a lot of love, a lot of life and a lot of encouragement for their fellow sisters in Christ. It's a great place to shed a tear (we are women), get a hug, have someone help us sort out our hearts and heads (that's emotion and logic), and let out the loneliness and frustration of being single in a "coupled" world, all the while doing our best to be authentic Catholic women. We want to be faithful daughters of the King, sisters of Jesus Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit.

Never once have I read anyone black-balling or running down a man in the "Pink Room."

We get frustrated with "poofers"-- the fellows that just disappear without a reason or reply.

We get frustrated with fellows that want endless emails, but won't or don't want to move on to phone dialogue (written text only goes so far with communication).

We get frustrated with men that want more pictures and more "full length" pictures. We don't want to be objectified.

We are women. We have been through difficult marriages, painful divorces, tedious annulments, the illnesses of passed husbands and the loss of husbands due to death. We also have beautiful and never married women who yearn to be good wives. We have a rich spirituality, are not not defined, but "refined" by the experiences and pains in our lives.

We know that we aren't perfect, and we aren't looking for perfect men. We are looking for the the one man that God wants for us, one that is willing to open his heart, and to be our authentic Catholic husband. We want chaste courting relationships, men that will pray with us and for us, attend mass with us on Sundays, and love us for who we are.

I don't know where your bitterness comes from. I suggest that you take it to the "boys room" and figure out what is troubling your heart. You have my forgiveness for your comments because I won't have it any other way. I will also keep you in prayer this evening.

Blessings from a CM Sister in Christ.


Beautifully said, Lady Suzanne! Thank you. claprose
Jun 23rd 2013 new
I am just shocked, Ed, to read this thread you posted

I wish you would pull up some concrete evidence about the statement you made about the matriarchs.

If anything, the young women may bring up a concern, and then we may express our thoughts for guidance, but they make their own decision.

I am very sorry you feel that way, but please remember young people are very impressionable.

I believe Andy is looking for guidance from the patriarchs.

That was kind of low, well below low, to call anyone a, - off- their -rocker hags

Jun 24th 2013 new
(quote) Ed-442168 said:  But at this point they probably think they're better than you or are guided by a handful of off-their-rocker hags who weaseled their way in as a surrogate matriarch.
Dude.. seriously? Seriously. You posted this on a public forum?
Jun 24th 2013 new
(quote) Carlos-977696 said:

3- Regarding the media again. Many of you may criticize me for not being very favourable towards self-help books. I ask you this my fellow CM'ers: what has this type of literature really taught us? Many of the information there is against Christian values, and geared more towards moral deconstructivism. That was and still remains a pillar for communism and other venues. Many vouch for more self esteem and "confidence". That'S nothing more than pumping your own ego. It goes against the teachings of Christ, about humility and about placing trust towards God, and not on our own force. There's another concept, namely being "cool". In my opinion that's one of the worst concepts our humanity has come up with. It is related to political correctness, being eloquent, calculating. All of that diminishes individuality in a person, to a point where if you stray but just one bit from that line, you're a called a geek, nerd, dweep, what else? I don't know, the way I see society nowadays reminds me of George Orwell's 1984 book about Big Brother and it's teachings.

So to wrap this up, understand Andy, that the friend's zone and all that are just human rules. If we people started really living like Christians, and not worrying about status quo, then we wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place. If I seek a woman, I not only want her to share my faith, but it is important for me that she can be herself, that she doesn't live by a script written by some professional in a book, rather that she can think for herself and bind herself to God. You should keep going. If I may add some advice(hopefuly you're not fed up with advices), make your own path, and just be attentive if someone crosses it and wants to accompany you. Don't believe the self-help culture, because that's not guided by the Holy Spirit. Seek God and his wisdom. The teachings of the Church provide the weapon of truth, with which we can live towards changing this world and pavving the way for God's kingdom, and His Justice.

Interesting post - definitely introverts are often (or usually) misunderstood by extraverts. The good thing is that I've seen lots of introvert-extravert pairs work out great, so Andy, if you're an introvert, that means you probably have a big pool of compatible women among the extraverts!

I also agree that there are a lot of serious, fundamental issues in the way our society is currently set up to not only accept rampant sexualization of everything, but to promote and even uphold it as the norm. It will be a huge uphill battle to reverse that trend.

However, regarding your sweeping statements made by self-help books: I'm not exactly sure what any of it has to do with the "friend zone". There are certainly many terrible self-help books diametrically opposed to Catholic teachings; I once saw one where they recommended "don't have sex until at least the third date." Obviously, not a good source of moral values in dating. But perhaps you can enlighten me why you think all self-help books are bad, when the category is so broad. Some of them are showing you how to enter into a relationship with God, or to become more spiritual. These are not in the same category as the "no sex til the third date" book. Like you said, it's important to be able to think for ourselves and have judgement (but not prejudice) about which books lead us toward God and which don't.

Also, you said that more self-esteem and confidence are nothing more than pumping your own ego, and that it goes against the teachings of Christ (humility, trusting God). We have to be careful here. That is true IF we become arrogant and start to believe that we are higher than God, or that we are God. Absolutely we should be humble in the face of God. But we must also remember that we are created in the image of God, and what God created is good. God the Father wouldn't have sent his only Son to die on a cross if we didn't have intrinsic value as his children. The more we seek to understand God's greatness, the more we see it reflected in ourselves, and vice versa. In fact, I have a book about this (unfortunately it's in French, otherwise, I'd recommend it to you). It's called "De l'estime de soi l'estime du Soi" (The word play unfortunately gets lost in translation but roughly, "From self-esteem to esteem of the Great I Am") - highlights the missing link between psychology and spirituality, and was written by a Catholic priest. You could consider it a self-help book. ;-)

Also, God can't afford scaredy-cat followers in this day in age (referring to your point #2). As we both agree, the societal norm and the media hype has gone very far from the very basis society was meant to be built on. And they are actively, vocally anti-Catholic in their rhetoric. If we are to stand up for God the Church, and have any hope to collectively influence societal norm to swing back in line with the Church's teaching, we need people who can speak the Good News with courage and confidence and especially love, not people who have such low self-esteem that they are afraid of what other people will think.

So now that we can move forward with confidence (grin), back to the "friend zone" - Andy, I don't think it's necessarily a bad place to be. Personally, I have a hard time trying to go straight into a relationship with someone I hardly know - friendship is the stepping stone to relationship. However, if you come on too strong and want to be in "dating zone" right away, they may send you to "friend zone" because it's a safe zone for them: it sends a signal that they aren't comfortable (yet) with activities or expectations from the "dating zone".

It's hard to tell from your description what might be happening, but if you are relegated to friend zone every single time: either you come on too strong and they freak out but are too polite to say so, or you haven't found a way to show them the qualities that make for a good boyfriend/future husband so they do this to move on to other opportunities, or finally, you just simply haven't found a good match yet. Or it could be a mix of all of the above, who knows!

Hopefully this will give some food for thought, and best of luck in finding someone! I'm confident you will. God bless.
Jun 24th 2013 new

thank you for your post. I don't quite follow you. The fact that a priest wrote that doesn't make it 100% true. Remember that as Pope Leo XIII said I think or was it Pope John Paul I, that there were forces contriving against the true teachings. I tend to integrate knowledge, because many things are interconnected. However forcibly joning psychology with Catholic theology, I would be more careful Now a days there are fewer exorcisms but more therapy. More people are declared insane than guilty. I hold true what Pope Benedict XVI said abtou moral relativism. I'm reading many of the threads I've responded to, and some people seem to make a direct association between confidence and Christian courage. That's not the same. The word confidence is more a of a cultura phenomena of over optimism. We could talk more about this in a private message if you desire to, for I'm risking total war on behalf of the rest, and I don't the energy for that right now. One thing is to have fortitude, which is one of the fruits of the Holy Ghost, and the other is confidence. That word is merely psychological, and is used in dating, right here on this site, as a way to exclude a potential partner. If you look at it superficially, you might not notice the error in that, but ask yourself how do people become so called "confident"?

Confidence, according to the world is know sour own value and an permeating it so that others can see. In that way men can win over women. No one says nothing about women having to be confident, because in their evolution,, men are supposed to protect them and therefore must this survival instinct. So the word confidence, is by definition not a Christian, rather the product of Darwinism. The concept of confidence is the re wrapped version of me being the neanderthal in order to become the alpha male of the pack. This way of thinking has brought to fight many wars including two world wars, which almost anhiliated Europe and Japan. This line of thought continues, and the next is nuclear Holocaust. Yes if you thought that the US had won the Cold War, you're wrong. Why do you think that Our Lady of Fatima urged the Bishops and the Pope to consecrate Russia to her Inmaculate Heart? Think about it.

Regarding self esteem, there'S an article, which I unfortunately lost the link, where many investigators harshly critisized psychologist for teaching about self esteem, for that has been linked to an increase in bullying. The one that gain the most from self esteem therapy are those who really don't need it. This constant pumping of the ego makes people insensitive and more prone to hurt others, and sorry for the indiscretion, but I've seen this behavior here. People with too much of that thinking they're above others because they have great looks, or a better carreer etc. This is the legacy of the self help generation. There's also another article discussing the authors behind this, and it comes down to this: writers usually write this to work on their own problems, but what they do is confuse the reader even more. For that there's much to gain financially.

I honestly feel for the Andy because, he really seems genuine and kind hearted, and guys like him are the ones that are often teased by women as being the "nice guy" as in the "nicce guy sindrome". That'S another legacy of the self-help industry. If you ask me I think, from what I've learned from Andy, that he's much more of a man than many of us here, because he speaks with the heart, and real men do that, not machos, like unfortunately women would want us to be, although out of politcall correctness they won't admit it. My fingers hurt so I'll drop the ball for now.

Andy, you're the man!
Jun 24th 2013 new
I'm always friend zoned by the guys I like. Not sure why myself either. If you figure it out let me know. Confidence goes a long way with the ladies by the way. If you show a confident attitude and do thoughtful little romantic type things that will often get you points. I just say this because so many guys seem to have forgotten this. If you see a girl you like try it and see what happens. Nothing too forward though think small and thoughtful. Listen to what she says she likes and work from there. When men pick up on the little things we say that really makes an impression. Good luck.
Jun 27th 2013 new
Very well said Brad. May God bless you more!

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