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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
Learn More: Saint Augustine

Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said: It's hard to be a regular confession goer and not feel a lot smaller though, I mean confession should vanquish egoism as we are visited regularly by the reminders of our weakness. Interesting that it hasn't had the effect of humility on them yet.

But hey chock it up to absentmindedness and/or a return to the Sacrament after a long hiatus or a recent conversion.
Yes. Most people in line are reflective, humble and broken.
Jul 13th 2013 new
We all come sick to the doctor of life. Some of us are sicker than others.

Sorry you experienced this. This has happened to me. It's made me angry and resentful. A few weeks ago an elderly woman pushed me out of the way and scampered into the confessional ahead of me. For a moment I hovered on the brink of rage. It was so late that this would be the last confession the priest could hear before leaving to say Mass. Swearing in Church is not nice. But I let loose a torrent. Finally I apologized interiorly and told Jesus that I have nothing to offer to him at this moment but my anger and resentment. So I ask him to take this offering and sanctify it. As in the past, this brought me great grace.

There will be places other than your parish where they hear confessions for more than 45 minutes each week. I go to a Poor Clare monastery where two friars hear confessions for an hour each day - or I go to the cathedral where they have 90 minutes of confession (with 2-3 priests) every morning and during the lunch hour. Find one of these places and start going there.


Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) Chalsey-31908 said: Today my son and I had a situation happen while attempting to go to confession and I need some guidance on what (if anything) should be done.

Confession is from 4 PM to 4:45 PM at our parish, and my son and I arrived (along with approximately 10 to 12 other people) shortly before 4 PM and waited for the priest. At 4:30 a homeless man asked my son, who was by now at the head of the line, if he could go ahead of him because he didn't have time to wait. Not wanting to be uncharitable my son said "yes". At 4:35 a man in a wheel chair arrived at the church and promptly rolled up to the confessional door (after the homeless man had left) and started loudly telling the priest that he needed the priest to come out and hear his confession since he couldn't fit through the door. The priest did. Immediately after that an elderly woman walked into the church and also went to the head of the line and went to confession. By now my son was irritated and walked off and the rest of the people that had been waiting for over half an hour, were making unhappy noises. In all my years of going to confession I have never seen this type of behavior. Has anyone else been through this type of situation? What is the proper way of handling this?
Your son should have told the homeless person to get in the back of the line, and then let him explain why he couldn't wait.

Three people in a row took advantage of your son. He was on the line early enough, those other three individuals could have done the same. He has an obligation not just to himself, but to everyone on that line behind him. If he wants to do an act of charity on his own, that's fine. It is unfair to force everyone else to do the same.

(Practicing patience, by the way, doesn't mean being a pushover for anyone.)

Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) David-364112 said: We all come sick to the doctor of life. Some of us are sicker than others.

Sorry you experienced this. This has happened to me. It's made me angry and resentful. A few weeks ago an elderly woman pushed me out of the way and scampered into the confessional ahead of me. For a moment I hovered on the brink of rage. It was so late that this would be the last confession the priest could hear before leaving to say Mass. Swearing in Church is not nice. But I let loose a torrent. Finally I apologized interiorly and told Jesus that I have nothing to offer to him at this moment but my anger and resentment. So I ask him to take this offering and sanctify it. As in the past, this brought me great grace.

There will be places other than your parish where they hear confessions for more than 45 minutes each week. I go to a Poor Clare monastery where two friars hear confessions for an hour each day - or I go to the cathedral where they have 90 minutes of confession (with 2-3 priests) every morning and during the lunch hour. Find one of these places and start going there.


David,

If you want to offer even more anger up, go back to the same church.

The woman will be doing this again next week. She'll do it again the week after. And she'll even be doing it the week after that.

She's going to do this until someone stops her and tells her to get in back of the line.
Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: David,

If you want to offer even more anger up, go back to the same church.

The woman will be doing this again next week. She'll do it again the week after. And she'll even be doing it the week after that.

She's going to do this until someone stops her and tells her to get in back of the line.
The woman who pushed me aside, and probably the homeless man described in the topic post were most likely mentally ill. I doubt very much that their behavior could be modified by remonstration.

The man in the wheelchair was probably angry and resentful at his situation and feels pushed aside all too often in his daily life, so he cuts to the front and demands special attention from God whom he probably feels caused him to be wheelchair-bound.

Scolding any of them would simply drive them further from Christ. By their behavior they NEED Christ and want him badly. If that means we step out of the way then so be it.

There are times and situations where it's appropriate the admonish somebody, but those are few and far between. We can't let ourselves suffer abuse or to be doormats, but neither should we be scolds. Nobody likes a pious scold. ABSOLUTELY NOBODY. Those are the people who drive more wavering souls out of the church and into the arms of the enemy than anything else.

Finally, perhaps the people who needed to learn a lesson from these situations outside the confessional are not the offenders but the offended. Everything that happens in our lives can be an invitation to holiness.

www.ccel.org Read the last 15 or 20 lines carefully.

Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) David-364112 said: The woman who pushed me aside, and probably the homeless man described in the topic post were most likely mentally ill. I doubt very much that their behavior could be modified by remonstration.

The man in the wheelchair was probably angry and resentful at his situation and feels pushed aside all too often in his daily life, so he cuts to the front and demands special attention from God whom he probably feels caused him to be wheelchair-bound.

Scolding any of them would simply drive them further from Christ. By their behavior they NEED Christ and want him badly. If that means we step out of the way then so be it.

There are times and situations where it's appropriate the admonish somebody, but those are few and far between. We can't let ourselves suffer abuse or to be doormats, but neither should we be scolds. Nobody likes a pious scold. ABSOLUTELY NOBODY. Those are the people who drive more wavering souls out of the church and into the arms of the enemy than anything else.

Finally, perhaps the people who needed to learn a lesson from these situations outside the confessional are not the offenders but the offended. Everything that happens in our lives can be an invitation to holiness.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/ugolino/flowers.iii.viii.html Read the last 15 or 20 lines carefully.

David,

Please re-read my post. I pointed out that if the young man was alone and wanted to perform an act of charity, it was certainly his right to do so. (You are certainly free to do the same.)

He wasn't the only one on the line. He is not in a position to make this decision for everyone; he has no idea what the situations are of those people waiting with him. We're talking about going to confession, after all.

As far as being a "pious scold," I don't see it. You're not taking a moral position here; you're telling someone to wait for their turn.
Jul 13th 2013 new
Do you want him to start a fight? We can't change what other people do. We can change how we react to it.

Last I checked, God didn't appoint me or you to be the referee. Had he done so, we'd have come into this world in a striped jerseys with a whistle around our necks and a red flag in our back pockets.

God doesn't step in when people behave reprehensibly and even murderously. He is never coercive. He keeps giving all of us, good and bad, the opportunity and invitation to accept his grace. Those who habitually reject God's invitations grow worse in their attitudes and behavior. Those who accept some of these invitations gradually become closer to God. We more closely reflect god's love if we suffer wrongs meekly than if we admonish the sinner. How did Jesus react in the garden when Judas led the temple soldiers to arrest him? How did he react in the Chief Priest's home? How did he react before Pilate, as he was scourged, when he was crowned with thorns, as he stood before the jeering multitudes clamoring for his death? He reacted with meekness, love, and sorrow. He did not scold. He did not correct.

We are called to be Christ-like. This is the high hurdle. Are we ready for it?

The line jumpers might not learn anything, but those penitents who quietly endured this mistreatment probably grew in grace because of it.
Jul 13th 2013 new
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

theheart
Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) David-364112 said: Do you want him to start a fight? We can't change what other people do. We can change how we react to it.

Last I checked, God didn't appoint me or you to be the referee. Had he done so, we'd have come into this world in a striped jerseys with a whistle around our necks and a red flag in our back pockets.

God doesn't step in when people behave reprehensibly and even murderously. He is never coercive. He keeps giving all of us, good and bad, the opportunity and invitation to accept his grace. Those who habitually reject God's invitations grow worse in their attitudes and behavior. Those who accept some of these invitations gradually become closer to God. We more closely reflect god's love if we suffer wrongs meekly than if we admonish the sinner. How did Jesus react in the garden when Judas led the temple soldiers to arrest him? How did he react in the Chief Priest's home? How did he react before Pilate, as he was scourged, when he was crowned with thorns, as he stood before the jeering multitudes clamoring for his death? He reacted with meekness, love, and sorrow. He did not scold. He did not correct.

We are called to be Christ-like. This is the high hurdle. Are we ready for it?

The line jumpers might not learn anything, but those penitents who quietly endured this mistreatment probably grew in grace because of it.
You're making quite a leap from having someone wait their turn like everyone else to "admonishing a sinner."

You're getting quite a bit of mileage out of my words, David. But you're on a roll now; don't let me stop you...
Jul 13th 2013 new
(quote) William-607613 said: David,

Please re-read my post. I pointed out that if the young man was alone and wanted to perform an act of charity, it was certainly his right to do so. (You are certainly free to do the same.)

He wasn't the only one on the line. He is not in a position to make this decision for everyone; he has no idea what the situations are of those people waiting with him. We're talking about going to confession, after all.

As far as being a "pious scold," I don't see it. You're not taking a moral position here; you're telling someone to wait for their turn.
You could also add, that there are people,who are not mentally ill, who just feel they are entitled, period, whether it be to go to the front of the line or that everyone else exist for them.

Although David's points have a lot of value to them, we are living in an age of extreme uncouthness, selfishness and narcissism.

That won't change until those adversely affected demand better behavior. And I would add, that all of us are guilty of these same sins at times.

Recently, I had an example of this thoughtlessness pulled on me. I was walking, in the general direction that most of those around me were proceeding some in opposite directions. For clarity let's say the general flow was proceeding north and south.

Along comes a young man (they are almost all younger than me these days) moving crosswise or perpendicular to the general flow. He proceeded to step right in front of me almost causing a collision. As he passed merrily on his way he said in that superior put down way, "Excuse you!!!!" implying I was at fault and of course, should have automatically stopped as he was so superior. I just shook my head and kept walking.
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