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This room is for discussion related to learning about the faith (Catechetics), defense of the Faith (Apologetics), the Liturgy and canon law, motivated by a desire to grow closer to Christ or to bring someone else closer.

Saint Augustine of Hippo is considered on of the greatest Christian thinkers of all time and the Doctor of the Church.
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Jul 14th 2013 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said: Oh and I would also stress the point to these individuals that many penitents may have exceedingly grave sins to confess, and that Penance can feel hard enough as it is without added stressors. Absolution is a life giving grace drawn by the sick and suffering to restore their health. I can remember as a boy when my parents separated and my father stopped taking me to Mass for years, until I lived with my mother again. Going to Confession after years without was like getting a root canal, I was sweating bullets the whole time, and every moment I got closer in line, I felt like walking out. A spectacle like that described by the OP might have stoked the flames of my fear and sent me out the door, exiled once again for many years from the faith of my baptism.
So, too, might those cutting in line. Anyone who wasn't able to confess and needs to can explain the situation to the priest and ask if he can stay later to hear the remaining confessions, hear them after Mass, etc.

Consider the alternative: the person at the front of the line attempts to thwart the cut. There is a good chance the person attempting to cut will start to raise a fuss, getting the attention of the priest. Perhaps he tells them to go to the end of the line, risking more commotion. Perhaps he attempts to diffuse the situation my taking them immediately. If he does the latter, then we have the same outcome as above. In which scenario do you think the priest will be more inclined to make special accommodations: when the people in line were acting with charity, or when they were not? In which do you think the Holy Spirit would be more likely to move the priest to accommodate those in line?


Jul 14th 2013 new
(quote) Devan-877827 said: How is this to be understood vis a vis Ezekiel 33? It's the opposite of mercy to simply allow others to subsist as ignorant wretches when perhaps, by the grace of God we might impart to them as a courtesy lessons of etiquette? Frankly, if this were me I'd be relieved if someone told me I was making a mistake, and the sooner the better.

We all make fools of ourselves at one time or another, and being warned of it in time to amend our behavior takes the sting out of that humiliation. Moreover, advising individuals of their rudeness gives them more to confess in the confessional. It's exactly why we go to penance; to receive instruction on how we might be more Christ-like.

Besides, their miserable example in the confessional line will undoubtedly lead others to think the behavior is acceptable and then it feeds on itself.

Lastly, Jesus is too often watered down and that's no justice to God. The merciful and gentle Jesus is just one side of Jesus. Jesus chased the money changers out of the Temple with bullwhip. Now while I concede that what we're dealing with in this particular instance is hardly as grave, it can be righteous to insist that unruly individuals observe some respect while on consecrated ground.

If you're squemish about rebuking in Church, then see if you can't meet the person in the parking lot. Start with a charitable introduction like "I don't pretend to know what sufferings and failings you bring to God in the Sacrament, and as I am also an imperfect follower of Christ, it is with sympathy from one prodigal to another and with love for my fellow brothers and sisters in the Body of Christ, that I must advise you that your behavior is disrupting the orderly procession to the Sacrament of Penance that you might be aware of it and show charity for the other members of the Body."

it is silly to believe that Christians are ill-equipped to correct wrongdoings. I have to disagree strongly, but respectfully, with Dave, my fellow Clevelander.
Do you really think these people don't know that the proper protocol is to go to the end of the line?

In any case, unless I overlooked something, Ezekiel 33 seems to referring to correcting evil (sin), not social offenses such as cutting in line.

The priest has authority over the situation. Those in line certainly have the option to make the priest aware of the situation. If it is more than an isolated situation, there are various ways he can deal with it.

One thing I learned from my mother when I was in high school, and which my experience over the 4 decades since has found to be almost always true, is that when faced with a moral dilemma, the correct path is,rarely the easy one. This certainly appears to be true in this scenario.
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Jul 14th 2013 new
Well, I guess the pastor is the one to ask. I don't know because I've never encountered such a thing. I would think that the elderly should wait in line just the same as everyone else. If they need special attention, I would think that they should call and make a special appointment with the priest. Someone should have told the priest hearing the confessions what was happenning as he probably wasn't aware, being that he was inside the confessional. I do know what it's like waiting in line and that kind of behavior would tick me off also. As far as I know there is no special attention given to elderly catholics or disabled where confession is concerned. Good question.
Jul 14th 2013 new
(quote) Jerry-74383 said: Allowing those behind you in line to go ahead would indeed be a meritorious act of charity.

If the person requests to cut ahead of you in line, then in fairness to the others in line you should indeed exchange positions in line with that person unless those between the two positions in the line also consent . If the person forces their way in front of you, I see no such obligation, even if you don't confront them.


Or an act of procrastination scratchchin There are times when I would prefer to let anybody and all ahead of me to avoid what I'm there for!! tongue angel
Jul 14th 2013 new
Sounds like a good day at the confessional... that priest should have kept at it until the line emptied

Schedule should take a back seat when souls seek grace.
Jul 14th 2013 new
You need another priest there if the wait is that long.

And no one should be in a confessional for 30 minutes, even deacons. The deacon was likely asking for advice or seeking pastoral counseling. That type of confession requires a private appt. A properly examined conscience should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes to unburden.
Jul 14th 2013 new
You need another priest there if the wait is that long.

And no one should be in a confessional for 30 minutes, even deacons. The deacon was likely asking for advice or seeking pastoral counseling. That type of confession requires a private appt. A properly examined conscience should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes to unburden.
Jul 14th 2013 new
(quote) Cort-989032 said: You need another priest there if the wait is that long.

And no one should be in a confessional for 30 minutes, even deacons. The deacon was likely asking for advice or seeking pastoral counseling. That type of confession requires a private appt. A properly examined conscience should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes to unburden.
Cort,

Let's be reasonable. We have a shortage of priests in this country.

I can tell you that out here in the west, the parish priests have all sorts of time; well, they should, with all this ordinary "extraordinary" laity assisting as entourage in half-empty churches and all other aspects of running the parish. Sometimes I actually wonder what priest do with all the time they have to themselves, but that could be another thread So why not expect to make the sacrament more available (time wise)?

After all, St John Vianney, had no problems with confessions where there were thousands in line. Some waited for days and didn't mind at all.

Rushing a repentant sinner? Nah, it takes as long as it takes. Someone who hasn't been to confession for years is hardly going to know exactly how it works, less know how to properly prepare. Just let it flow, and the priest can help with procedure.

Priests need to make the time and not push penitents away!
Jul 15th 2013 new
(quote) Cort-989032 said: You need another priest there if the wait is that long.

And no one should be in a confessional for 30 minutes, even deacons. The deacon was likely asking for advice or seeking pastoral counseling. That type of confession requires a private appt. A properly examined conscience should take no more than 5 or 10 minutes to unburden.
Just curious. Why do you think no one should be in confession for 30 minutes?

A fallen away, returning to the Church after 30 years, could easily use up 30minutes just giving a general description of their sins.
Jul 15th 2013 new
(quote) Paul-866591 said: Just curious. Why do you think no one should be in confession for 30 minutes?

A fallen away, returning to the Church after 30 years, could easily use up 30minutes just giving a general description of their sins.
I was a fallen away/returned after 20 years Catholic and I made an appointment! Yes, it did take more than 30 minutes and I suspected it would, which is why I chose to make an appointment. It's very scarey to return but it is not a routine-Saturday-confession experience and should not be done as a 'slip-in-on-Saturday-during-regular-confessions' basis. Different strokes for different folks but routine confession time is not the time or place to return...it's rude!
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